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  #61  
Old 12-23-2009, 03:31 PM
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Alleycat Alleycat is offline
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That's what I am saying. If you get a side charger action for an AR and a gas cut off you can shoot it just like a AR or cut the gas off and shoot it like a bolt gun. With the gas off it will not have the ejection port pop. They make 300 gr bullets for the Socom. Most are for HV, but you can get bullets setup for subsonic expansion. As for the auto mag call some manufacturers and ask them what they think. There may be a reason that we all don't own an AR in those calibers.
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  #62  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:15 PM
dvanncvann dvanncvann is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampF0X View Post
OK, IF I want to use my existing 223 AR magazines in my AR, what caliber options apply? 300 whisper, 6mm/223, 223 rem of coarse, 222 rem, 17 rem, and the 458 socom................anything else?

If I also want to use my existing 223 AR bolt, what are my options? 300 whisper, and of coarse 223 rem, 6mm/223, 222 rem, 17 rem.........................anything else?

Is there any room to spare 'length wise' on a AR 45acp mag? Could it be converted to shoot 45 auto mag loaded subsonic? I onlly ask because I want as much speed as possible (1050fps) and most loads for the 45 acp are closer to 900fps. With just a little bit more case capacity than a 45acp, 1050fps should be possible with 300grain bullets........at least it works out that way in my brain.

swampf0x
45 acp can be loaded to over 1200fps using 45 super brass for RIFLE use only. Google for 45 super loads. Starline has brass available. The difference is a thicker web in the case head. Length is the same as regular 45 acp brass.
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  #63  
Old 12-23-2009, 06:45 PM
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Alleycat Alleycat is offline
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I always wondered about the 45 Rowland.

http://bazookabrothers.com/products2.htm

The blowback thing gets me every time. These uppers fix that problem. The 7.62x25 would be fun and cheap for a plinker.

Last edited by Alleycat; 12-23-2009 at 09:26 PM.
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  #64  
Old 12-23-2009, 09:13 PM
kanton kanton is offline
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dvanncvann,

The 45 Super can also be fired from pistols. A detailed writeup is provided here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Super.

One pistol conversion kit is the "45Super"® Gunsmith Fit Conversion Kits by: http://www.acecustom45s.com/gunsmith.htm.
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  #65  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:01 PM
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Rikky Lee Rikky Lee is offline
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The http://bazookabrothers.com/products2.htm site has some good caliber choices.

SwampF0X - what do you say? Fast twist 45ACP or a 50AE?

From that list, I'm still a firm supporter of the 338BR - 250/300 grains at 1050fps....
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  #66  
Old 12-23-2009, 10:04 PM
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Rikky Lee Rikky Lee is offline
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A quick Google a minute later ===> http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/guns/311...re_review.html
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  #67  
Old 12-24-2009, 03:08 AM
SwampF0X SwampF0X is offline
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My choices in caliber has now expanded. I keep coming back to "larger bullets make more noise" The videos of the 45acp and integral 44 mag, that I have watched, seem decently quiet. What few videos of the 458 SOCOM I have seen..............well, they all seem quite loud. This makes me want to keep the bullet size < or = to 45 caliber.

What subsonic expandable bullets are available for the 338BR? Can I use my 223 AR mags or do I need special mags? Is the 338 BR capable of dropping the deer relatively quick?

I don't really understand the gas system in the AR platform. Where can I get the gas cutoff and side charging handle? A left hand charging handle would be nice. OR would I be better off buying a complete upper from bazookabrothers.com? Or perhaps they sell individual parts or kits to be used on my existing upper???

The 45 Roland or the 45 super or the 45 win mag all sounds like good candidates for my use. But how accurate would it be? Would case pressures be the same from each one, given both are loaded to shoot the same bullet at the same velocity? Or would the smaller 45 super case have more pressure? I assume the less case pressure, the less noise, correct??????? If so then the 45 win mag should still be my #1 pick if I use the AR platform. (maybe the roland to, I have not researched it yet)

This rifle will hopefully also double as a night time coyote killer. I'm not worried about maximum damage for the yotes but I do have a question concerning optics. I have a Gen 2.5 night vision scope. It works ok but it's not meant to be a quick release mount. Therefore taking it on and off for yotes to deer and back again would not maintain zero. Besides, I really hate the recticle in this thing to.

My question is.............Would it work, if I mounted a scout style pistol scope up front on an AR and then place the night vision scope behind it on the receiver in the normal fashion????? I'm thinking that I could then take the night vision scope on and off on and not have to worry about loosing zero because I would always be using the cross hairs in the pistol scope. Would it work like that? I don't have a pistil scope to try it on. Also, Can a green laser be used with night vision?

swampf0x

Last edited by SwampF0X; 12-24-2009 at 03:50 AM.
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  #68  
Old 12-24-2009, 04:06 AM
SwampF0X SwampF0X is offline
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From Wikapedia.

"Maximum Average Pressure is: 45 ACP (21,000 PSI), .45 ACP +P (23,000 PSI), .45 Super (28,000 PSI), .460 Rowland (40,000 PSI)."............... but this is all full loads. How would they rate using the same weight and velocity bullet?????? Which one would be the quietest, low pressure or high pressure?????


swampf0x
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  #69  
Old 12-24-2009, 08:04 AM
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Alleycat Alleycat is offline
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It's PSI at the end of the barrel that you have to worry about. Find some one with a Quickload program it will tell you what you need to know. Barrel length will greatly affect your numbers.

Outlaw state bullets and Lehigh bullets are both working on subsonic 338 bullets. No idea when they will be ready.


Blowback gas system is the loudest of all suppressed setups. It is used on most pistol cases. It is just like a semi auto 22 lr. The action is held by spring pressure. When the gun is fired the case expands and holds on to the side of the camber walls until chamber pressure drops. The pressures will typically be higher at the ejection port which will give you a nice pop.

On an AR you have a hole in the barrel that gas is shunted into. It travels through the gas block into the gas tube and finally into the carrier. As the carrier moves to the rear of the gun the bolt is rotated and disengages from the barrel extension. Pressures will be less = less ejection port pop.


Gas cut offs stop this from happening and turns the gun into a K31 Swiss
There is a member on this site that sell them. Bazooka brothers my be able to set you up.

The 460 Rowland was an attempt to put 44mag power into a 1911 handgun. Like the super it is a really stout case. They're both 45 cal. I would go with whatever had the most available brass. As long as they get your target bullet to 1050 It does not really matter which one you get. Looks like the super and the 45 mag are ready to ship.

http://www.starlinebrass.com/?gclid=...FQ9fswodqX9MJA

As far as accuracy goes, It all depends on the gun. Get a free float tube and a good trigger.

NV. Some get a laser dot scope with a NV setting and mount it in front of their gun. There is not as much shift as you would think going back and forth. What will it take to verify you zero? I just shoot the gun.


A green laser will light your NV up and render it useless. (Red too) You need an IR laser or a good IR light source. It will look like a spotlight to you.
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  #70  
Old 12-24-2009, 09:37 AM
dvanncvann dvanncvann is offline
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanton View Post
dvanncvann,

The 45 Super can also be fired from pistols. A detailed writeup is provided here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Super.

One pistol conversion kit is the "45Super"® Gunsmith Fit Conversion Kits by: http://www.acecustom45s.com/gunsmith.htm.
Correct. It just has to be one specially adapted for the load. The reason I stated for rifle use was so that someone reading my post would not mistakenly think that the loads could be used in a regular 45 pistol. Dont want any accidents. :)
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