help me build the ultimate silenced hunter
 

Hi guys. I'm looking to build a silenced subsonic deer hunting rifle. Ranges will be from 10 yards up to 200 yards (extreme). I'd like to keep this rifle as short as possible, so I'll need either an integral suppressor, bullpup stock, or a SBR. I'd like to skip the SBR if possible, and if I convert my AR the bullpup is out.... I already have a Oly Arms AR 15 that I can modify.

Necessities:

1. Must have sufficient power to take out deer sized animals @ 200 yards and closer

2. I want the flattest trajectory possible out to 200 yards. I'd rather not think of rise and fall of the bullet when shooting.................just point and click/pffft

3. I want a bullet that will expand on impact and produce a nice wound channel and a quick kill at subsonic velocities.

4. I want this rifle to be as silent as possible so what do you recommend as far as silencers go? Weight is of little concern.

5. Reliability is of great importance as is accuracy. 3" groups at 200yrds is acceptable. 1.5" @ 100yrds. Tighter is always better.

6. Of coarse I want to keep my spending as low as possible.

I've been looking at the AR 300 whisper and the Ruger 44mag carbine, but I have been unsuccessful in finding accurate trajectory charts for different loads and calibers.

With the 300 whisper I can use my AR as a build platform. Model 1 has 300 whisper barrels at a decent price and I can use the upper receiver and handguards from my AR as well as other parts.............I have no use for a .223. I would need to have some machine work done to it to make it exactly what I want, but that shouldn't be a big problem with all the machinists around here :grin:


So................what do you guys recommend and why?

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Thanks even more for answering my questions. :grin:

swampf0x

If you want to go cheap and EZ I would:
1 Go with a 44 mag or 45 Colt. Cheap bullets that will expand.
2 Not going to happen. Your best bet is to get a Pride fowler 3x9 .22 scope. It has drop compensation out to 200 yds. It is your best and cheapest bet.
3 refer to (1)
4 A subsonic 44 mag will work in a good 45 acp Suppressor. If you plan on shooting hot loads get a custom can. Elite Iron will make you one for a reasonable price.
5&6 H&R rifle. Cheap and they shoot good.


If you do an AR the price will go up quite a bit. 458 SOCOM is my choice. I use a custom bullet for hunting and a cheap bullet for play. ($2 a piece for hunting $0.50 for play) You will also need a gas cutoff to get it as quiet as possible. The Whisper works good when you pick your shots. It will not act like a normal deer rifle. Most of the deer I have shot jump a little, go about 20 yds, stop, and look around. Then they just fall over. The larger guns knock the crap out of them.


As bullet diameter goes up so does sound, but I must admit the .44s I've heard are quiet.

Thank you for your quick responce and the recomendation. I may however need someone to help me through this process. OK, Most of my shots will be under 100yrds. IF......IF I was to see a big granddaddy monster buck out to 200yrds..................I would have to try it :D

Soooooo, I should be asking................

1. ***what subsonic caliber will give me the flattest trajectory out to 100yrds? Better yet, does anyone have trajectory charts for any/all subsonic loads?

2. what caliber is best on deer inside of 100yrds.? I rarely have shots outside that. I would really like to see some mushrooming when the bullet hits meat (44mag), but it's OK if it doesn't, as long as a good clean well placed shot will put the animal down quickly(300 whisper?), mushrooming is not a necessity.

From my research thus far the 300 whisper seems to be THE best choice for hunting. I'm just looking for other/better solutions.

thanks,
swampf0x

thanks,
swampf0x

Thats a tall order...

Heavy subsonic bullets drop like a brick past 100 yards. I shoot 220s out to 400 or so yards with a 200 yard zero.

Being subsonic, most bullets tend to not expand very well as they are designed to expand at much higher velocities.

Trajectory of the bullet has little to do with bullet weight or diameter. It's has everything to do with ballistic coefficient and velocity. Here is a 20gr vs a 900gr bullet with a .500 BC. Higher BCs will help at long range, but out to 200 yds you will not notice much. As far as 300 Whisper. If you can honestly let a good deer walk rather than take a questionable shot, get one. You need to have a good broadside shot every time. There are expandable bullets. Well one commercially available bullet. The .44,.45,.458,.510 will save you when the shot is a little off the mark. There are a wider variety of expandable bullets for them and to be honest larger caliber stuff does not need to expand. .45 Colt with hard cast will kill any deer. The 300 Whisper in an AR will allow a fast follow up shot. The problem is, no one knows your hunting style more than you. I have 300 Whisper and a 458 SOCOM and love them both. Both have killed deer. Both are ARs. The 300 is like shooting them with a knife blade. The 458 is a lot like a 40mm grenade. As far as trajectory tables go, let me know what bullet you would like to shoot and I will post the chart. There will not be much difference. If you get some standard velocity .22 lr stuff and shoot it out to 200 yds you will get a good idea of what you are getting into.

Name: Test
Ballistic Coeff: 0.500
Bullet Weight: 20
Velocity: 1050
Target Distance: 100
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy
0 yds -1.50 in 1050 fps 49 fpe
25 yds 1.94 in 1038 fps 48 fpe
50 yds 3.37 in 1027 fps 47 fpe
75 yds 2.73 in 1016 fps 46 fpe
100 yds 0.00 in 1006 fps 45 fpe
125 yds -4.89 in 996 fps 44 fpe
150 yds -11.88 in 986 fps 43 fpe
175 yds -21.14 in 977 fps 42 fpe
200 yds -32.71 in 969 fps 42 fpe
225 yds -46.62 in 960 fps 41 fpe
250 yds -62.92 in 952 fps 40 fpe
275 yds -81.63 in 944 fps 40 fpe
300 yds -102.78 in 936 fps 39 fpe
325 yds -126.38 in 928 fps 38 fpe
350 yds -152.45 in 921 fps 38 fpe
375 yds -181.01 in 914 fps 37 fpe
400 yds -212.08 in 907 fps 36 fpe
425 yds -246.24 in 900 fps 36 fpe
450 yds -282.40 in 893 fps 35 fpe
475 yds -321.38 in 886 fps 35 fpe
500 yds -363.20 in 880 fps 34 fpe
525 yds -407.89 in 874 fps 34 fpe
550 yds -455.48 in 867 fps 33 fpe
575 yds -506.01 in 861 fps 33 fpe
600 yds -559.49 in 855 fps 32 fpe


Name: tast
Ballistic Coeff: 0.500
Bullet Weight: 900
Velocity: 1050
Target Distance: 100
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy
0 yds -1.50 in 1050 fps 2203 fpe
25 yds 1.94 in 1038 fps 2154 fpe
50 yds 3.37 in 1027 fps 2107 fpe
75 yds 2.73 in 1016 fps 2063 fpe
100 yds 0.00 in 1006 fps 2022 fpe
125 yds -4.89 in 996 fps 1982 fpe
150 yds -11.88 in 986 fps 1945 fpe
175 yds -21.14 in 977 fps 1909 fpe
200 yds -32.71 in 969 fps 1874 fpe
225 yds -46.62 in 960 fps 1842 fpe
250 yds -62.92 in 952 fps 1810 fpe
275 yds -81.63 in 944 fps 1780 fpe
300 yds -102.78 in 936 fps 1750 fpe
325 yds -126.38 in 928 fps 1722 fpe
350 yds -152.45 in 921 fps 1695 fpe
375 yds -181.01 in 914 fps 1668 fpe
400 yds -212.08 in 907 fps 1642 fpe
425 yds -246.24 in 900 fps 1618 fpe
450 yds -282.40 in 893 fps 1593 fpe
475 yds -321.38 in 886 fps 1570 fpe
500 yds -363.20 in 880 fps 1547 fpe
525 yds -407.89 in 874 fps 1525 fpe
550 yds -455.48 in 867 fps 1503 fpe
575 yds -506.01 in 861 fps 1482 fpe
600 yds -559.49 in 855 fps 1461 fpe

I just received an email from SSK. They told me that they are working on a 300 whisper bullet that WILL expand at subsonic velocities, and they are almost finished. I don't know anything else about that bullet but more than likely............that's what I want to shoot.

I still haven't given up on the 44mag or any of the other large calibers. I just think the 300 will shoot straighter, farther.

swampf0x

Berrys mfg is also looking at making a bullet for the Whisper. They use a softer lead in their bullets and could possibly come out with an expanding bullet. A rep from Berrys started a thread here, feel free to tell them how much you would like to see them add a new bullet to their line up.

If you like the 300 get it, but it will not shoot "straighter" then any other subsonic stuff.



Name: 240/ 300
Ballistic Coeff: 0.700
Bullet Weight: 240
Velocity: 1050
Target Distance: 100
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy
0 yds -1.50 in 1050 fps 587 fpe
25 yds 1.91 in 1041 fps 578 fpe
50 yds 3.32 in 1033 fps 569 fpe
75 yds 2.69 in 1025 fps 560 fpe
100 yds 0.00 in 1018 fps 552 fpe
125 yds -4.79 in 1010 fps 544 fpe
150 yds -11.69 in 1003 fps 536 fpe
175 yds -20.79 in 996 fps 529 fpe
200 yds -31.93 in 989 fps 521 fpe
225 yds -45.33 in 983 fps 514 fpe
250 yds -61.01 in 976 fps 508 fpe

Name: 530/458
Ballistic Coeff: 0.400
Bullet Weight: 530
Velocity: 1050
Target Distance: 100
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy
0 yds -1.50 in 1050 fps 1297 fpe
25 yds 1.97 in 1035 fps 1261 fpe
50 yds 3.41 in 1022 fps 1228 fpe
75 yds 2.78 in 1008 fps 1197 fpe
100 yds 0.00 in 996 fps 1167 fpe
125 yds -4.90 in 984 fps 1140 fpe
150 yds -12.08 in 973 fps 1114 fpe
175 yds -21.59 in 962 fps 1089 fpe
200 yds -33.47 in 952 fps 1066 fpe
225 yds -47.77 in 942 fps 1044 fpe
250 yds -64.50 in 932 fps 1022 fpe


About 1.5 @ 200 yds.

Alleycat,
What ballistic software are you running?
Thanks

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