Terminal ballistic

[RWBlue]

I am talking Terminal ballistics. Not external, not internal ballistics.

When shooting subsonic 308 in a match bullet (JHP-BT), does it make a difference if the bullet is 180gr, 190gr, 200gr, 220gr, 240gr or 250gr?

How much penetration should I expect?

[Scollins]

I would think you would want the heaviest bullet possible, since the velocity will be limited to about 1050 FPS regardless of bullet weight. The 240 will provide more energy than the 180. The 240 will have 587 ft-lbs vs. 440 ft-lbs for the 180, both at 1050 FPS. None of these bullets are going to expand or even fragment at these velocities, so mass is king.

As for specific results, I can't provide any. It would just seem on the surface and on paper that you would want the heaviest bullet...

[RWBlue]

Scollins, I agree with you to a point, but then again no.

If I am getting a through and through and the bullet still tumbles, and the BC is the same or better.... why not go with a lighter bullet?

They cost less.

[RWBlue]

Looks like PMC did a test with 220gr wildcat bullets and got 10-12 inches of pen for a subsonic load.

I think this would get me a through and through on most deer around here.

[Scollins]

Originally Posted by RWBlue

Looks like PMC did a test with 220gr wildcat bullets and got 10-12 inches of pen for a subsonic load.

I think this would get me a through and through on most deer around here.

I haven't hunted in years (like 20, can't find anyone to go with) but I would think that a bullet passing through a deer is different than wet phone books.

If you get the performance you need out of a lighter (and less expensive bullet) than go for it. But are you really shooting all that much in a hunting situation that a few cents per bullet makes that big of an impact?

The heavier bullets also have better BCs, thus more down range energy. The 240 will still have 522 ft-lbs at 200 yards, whereas the 180 has dropped down to 375.

I guess the only way to know for sure is to load up a few of each and see what happens. I can send you a few 240's if you want to try them out (not an open offer to the whole forum though!)

[pmc]

As was mentioned I got 10" to 12" of penetration out of the widlcat 220's. I usually get about 12 to 14 out of 240 gr SMK's. An of example of performance on deer is a doe I shot headon at 30 yards through the throat patch. The bullet penetrated well into the vital organs (I was in a treesatand shooting about 20 feet up.) One I shot in the head from about 40 yard entered just under the eye and did not exit the skull but turned the brain to mush.

Pmc

[RWBlue]

Scollinis, I really appreciate the offer. But I will turn it down, at least for now.

Let me give you a little background, I don’t get to hunt nearly as much as I would like. I am interested in terminal performance. Just because. :-) I have some gel that I use to test. It appears to be a good medium for testing. This testing is more of and art than a science at this point.

I am currently Whisper less. I am waiting on the feds (SBR). Then there are the parts I need. And finally the reloading stuff which brings me to where I am.

I am looking for 240gr bullets, and I am just not finding them. I assume Sierra will make more, but if they didn’t….?

Based on PMC’s findings, I am thinking we need the extra weight. In fact, I wonder if we need a 300gr bullet. I don’t like the idea of the bullet not exiting the head. It could be the angle, but it could be the bullet didn’t have the energy to exit.

[Scollins]

Originally Posted by RWBlue

Scollins, I really appreciate the offer. But I will turn it down, at least for now.

Not a problem. I would love to see some 240 performance in gelatin. If you want a handful to test, let me know.

I spoke with Sierra at SHOT, and they are supposed to be making more. Midway USA has been backordered forever. I got the guy's card, I'll call him tomorrow and see what is going on. I might have to invest in a lot of bullets up front if supply becomes an issue.

Although, I'd like to see what PMC and Wild Cat Bullets come up with. If he can get a wicked expanding 220 (or even a 240 hint hint) then I'd probably opt for some of those too. I think it is going to take a really soft core and maybe even a polymer tip though. But I'm no bullet expert....

[pmc]

I am ok with the bullet staying inside the skull, remember it went thru bone going in. A soft tissue shot gets more penetration for sure. My big concern is expansion. Richard at Wildcat bullets is working on some stuff to help us out.

Pmc

[RWBlue]

My concern is what would happen if you hit a shoulder or rib bone.