300/221 Recipe for AR

[Scollins]

Originally Posted by 320pf

Also a warning! DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads or powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual! You can/will blow-up your gun. If you do not believe me check this site out:

http://feistyrooster.com/300x221/300...rrelsplit.html

If you want to shoot subsonic loads you will need to use faster pistol powders than H110

Excuse my french, but that is a bunch of crap. The Sierra manual has loads for subsonic 300 Whisper using H110. Yes, that particular individual screwed up his gun. Was it because he used H110 for subsonic loads? Possibly. We actually have no idea why that happened to him. I do know that he wasn't using a 240 grain SMK, which is the specified bullet in the Sierra manual.

I use H110 for subsonic loads using 240 grain SMKs. Funny, when I look at my Sierra pages for the 300 Whisper, it says to use 9.6 grains of H110 for 950 FPS, up to 11.5 grains for 1200 FPS. There are 3 different charge weights for subsonic H110 loads listed. 9.6 for 950, 10.0 for 1000 and 10.4 for 1050. My particular carbine settled on 9.9 grains of H110 for 1005 FPS. It cycles fine (not violently) and ALL my brass lands in a nice little pile 3 feet to my right and 3 feet back.

The powders listed in the Sierra manual for subsonic 240 grains loads are:
AA No 9 (#39 on the burn chart)
2400 (#38 on the burn chart)
Vhit N110 (#41 on the burn chart)
H110 (#43 on the burn chart)
296 (#44 on the burn chart)
Viht N120 (#53 on the burn chart)
AA-1680 (#48 on the burn chart)

Burn chart numbers based pulled from: http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php

Funny, all of those powders are either about as slow as, or slower than, H110. H110 is actually right in the middle, with 3 powders being faster and 3 being slower. The "accuracy load" is shown in the manual as "Viht N110/10.1 grs ; 1100 fps/645ft lbs." Viht N110, is just barely faster than H110.

The Sierra Manual doesn't recommend anything faster than AA #9 until you get to the 135 grain bullets. After that, the fastest powder listed is AA #5 for the 110 grain to 135 grain bullets. A few powders appear on every single bullet weight from 110 grain to 240 grain, H110 being one of them. H110 has subsonic loads listed for 220 grain and 240 grain bullets. It does not have one listed for 200 grain or lower, but then again, neither does any powder in the Sierra manual.

[Cornholio]

I like using Alliant 2400 for my Whisper needs. I have a simple formula that works for me. 9.0grs under a 220gr SMK for subsonic loads, double that (18grs) under a Sierra 110gr JHP for supersonic 2,300-2,400fps loads.

[320pf]

Scollins,

Did you read the recommendation that I posted carefully?

"Also a warning! DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads or powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual!"

I did not say;

"DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads"

I said;

"DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads or powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual!"

I believe that this is sound advice to give someone new to reloading his own ammo. It is also sound advice for anyone reloading no matter what the experience level.

Finally, the velocities given for loads listed in the Sierra manual are all out of a 10 in. barrel. I have found that I typically get 100 to 200 fps more than the listed velocity from my 16 in. barrel.

320pf

[Lawfficer]

Ok guys thanks....

Im still looking for more imput on OAL, but I guess what it is all going to boild down to getting my upper and spacing it out. Hopefully, the 100rds I have made up will work and are not to short, as I trimmed the brass to 1.355". Good thing .223 brass is cheap and abundant. :)

Thanks for the help... and I just aquired a liter of AA No. 7 to load with too, do if there are any loads for that.... Im all ears... or should I say "eyes"

[Cornholio]

320pf posted some data above.

[Lawfficer]

Anyone Anyone

[Scollins]

Originally Posted by 320pf

Scollins,

Did you read the recommendation that I posted carefully?

"Also a warning! DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads or powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual!"

I did not say;

"DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads"

I said;

"DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads or powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual!"

I believe that this is sound advice to give someone new to reloading his own ammo. It is also sound advice for anyone reloading no matter what the experience level.

Finally, the velocities given for loads listed in the Sierra manual are all out of a 10 in. barrel. I have found that I typically get 100 to 200 fps more than the listed velocity from my 16 in. barrel.

320pf

I did read it carefully. It says "DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads OR powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual." The choice and placement of the word *OR* in your statement means "DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads." Everything after the *OR* is a different statement or condition, and totally separates itself from the initial statement before the word *OR*.

If you meant to convey that H110 can be used with subsonic loads, but with certain conditions, your statement should read "DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads WITH powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra Reloading manual." You could also phrase it as "DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads UNLESS you are at or above the minimum powder charges listed in the Sierra Reloading Manual."

My personal opinion is that noobies to reloading shouldn't be messing around with wild cat catridges, even one with a lot of commercial data like the 300 Whisper, 300/221, 300 Fireball or whatever you want to call it. There are diffferences in chamber reamers used by the various barrel makers and that can cause problems. There are different die manufacturers, and there are differences in their dimensions. I use Redding Dies in a Randall Rausch barrel, with brass from Davis that is formed from Redding Dies. It works well in my rifle.

Also, building subsonic loads is a different process than what most reloading manuals suggest for standard loads, which is start low and work UP. With subsonic, you want to start near maximum and work your way DOWN, not the other way around. The person in the Fiesty Rooster link should have started with his higher loads first, then worked down until he got the velocity he wanted. Had he done that, he might not have split his barrel.

[320pf]

Scollins,

You are correct! I should have used "with" not "or". My bad.

I also agree with your sentiment that people new to reloading should start with a standard cartridge before venturing into the wildcat realm.

I am using Redding Dies including the trim/forming die as well. I have made 200 rounds from unfired 221 FireBall brass and 200 rounds from unfired winchester 223 brass. I have recently tried about 75 pieces of brass from Davis.... I am probably going to stop making my own brass and just buy brass from Davis.

I am running a 16 in. Olympic Arm barrel with the gas port in the pistol position. I had Randall Rausch thread and slightly re-profile the barrel so I could install and JP Enterprise Bennie Cooley compensator and a JP Enterprise low profile adjustable gas block.

What is the the barrel set-up that you are running?

I am mostly interested in supersonic loads that make/exceed the IPSIC power factor of 320 (bullet wt X vel./1000). Currently the loads that I have that make the 320 power factor are:

16.5 gr H110 behind a 180 SPBT sierra GameKing at 1827 fps
16.5 gr Lil'Gun behind a 180 SPBT sierra GameKing at 1840 fps
16.5 gr H4227 behind a 180 SPBT sierra GameKing at 1792 fps

I am now working up 165 gr and 155 gr bullets. Randall ran some QUICKLOAD models for me and it looks like that the 155 g (PALMA) is the lightest bullet that I can use to make the 320 power factor.

Any way... I was wondering if I have Randall make a barrel in either 18 or 20 inches... can I get 150g bullets over 2133 fps to make power factor

[libertyswiss]

Originally Posted by Scollins

I use H110 for subsonic loads using 240 grain SMKs. My particular carbine settled on 9.9 grains of H110 for 1005 FPS. It cycles fine (not violently) and ALL my brass lands in a nice little pile 3 feet to my right and 3 feet back.

Hello Scollins

I'm a Swiss user and i'm a newbie on reloading ammo.
I have a .300whisper-DSC upper with 16"-barrel and gas port position in carbine lenght. I don't know the gas port diameter and the gas tube/gas block are not adjustable. Unfortunately the only currently available .300whisper-ammo in Switzerland is the RUAG Swiss P with 220 grains, but this combination don't cycle on my .300whisper.

You wrote that your cycling subsonic load is 240grains SierraMatchKing with 9.9grains H110.
Do you think this load will cycle on my upper?
Do you mind if i ask you what OAL do you use for this and what kind of crimp?

Do you have any experience with cycling subsonic loads for 7,62x39russian?
I would try N130 due gas port position in the AKM-47, but N130 is not a very fast burning powder and i'm very scary about the danger of secondary explosion that will blow up the gun and cause heavy injury.

Best regards from Switzerland
Roberto

[Pitt300]

VV N110 is an excellent choice & I think I'm switching to that in my subsonic loads due to temperature related velocity changes w/H110.
Sierra has load data both super & sub for VV N110 & it is their recommended powder in most of their loads.
I may be wrong but I think you HAVE to put a can on the gun or there isn't enough pressure/dwell time to cycle.
That's my experience anyway.
I do know that M1S has a very light weight 300-221 buffer & spring that might cycle w/o can but I'm not sure.