New to 300 Whisper

[sparhawk]

Howdy All! I've been thinking about building a suppressed rifle for some time, and have finally decided that I need to have one. At first I was going to re-barrel my Remington 700 LTR (.308) with a 16 inch 1:8 and a Gemtech HVT with the QD mount. I was planning on using subsonic .308 from Engel. I already ordered the HVT. But then, I saw a guy at a local range a few weeks ago with a 300 Whisper on an AR-15. I don't know what kind of suppressor he had, but it sounded like one of my dog's farts! Just a whoosh with the metal sound of the bolt. So, now I've changed my plans for my 700, and I've ordered various parts to build my own 300 on an AR platform. I'm going to order the barrel later this week from SSK, I just haven't decided on the length. First of all (I know I've been a bit impulsive), will the Gemtech HVT be a good suppressor with the Whisper? Is it too big for the whisper? Is it better to have the biggest can I can get? What can I expect it to sound and shoot like? I'm basically going to be playing at the range, but I want an accurate shot at about 200 yards. I plan to use a Harris bipod. What are your thoughts on barrel length? My local class 3 guy says he wants to build one for himself with an 11 inch barrel. Isn't that too short - not to mention a 2 tax gun? I was thinking 16 inches was about right. Are there any suppliers of complete rounds? Or, am I going to have to learn to load my own? The Engel .308 ammo is soooo expensive at $450.00 for 100 rounds. The expense is the main thing that put me off of the subsonic .308 Engel/ Remington 700 conversion. What will the whisper ammo cost? Is there a difference in the way the subsonic .308 vs. 300 Whisper shoots/ sounds? What are the preferred bullet weights and barrel twists? Am I going about this the right way? I only plan to shoot subsonic suppressed with this rifle. Any input would be greatly appreciated, especially since I don't know what the hell I'm doing!!!

[320pf]

I just finished building (about 3 months ago) an Ar15 upper in 300-221 fireball aka 300 Whisper.

You should look into other sources for your barrel. You can get a very high quality AR barrel from Randall at AR15 Barrles.com.

http://www.ar15barrels.com/

You can also get a barrel form Tony at Del-Ton. He bulit a very nice 16 in. upper for me. The barrel is an Olympic Arm barrel built for them by wilson barrels. I am having Randall at AR15 Barrles thread my 16 in barrel for me.

www.del-ton.com

Another source is www.model1sales.com. But there was some scuttle on the web that their 1 in 8 barrels were not really 1 in 8.


Here are my suggestions:
-16 in barrel
-1 in 8 twist
-gas port in pistol position
-adjustable gas block... I got mine from JP Enterpises: www.jprifles.com
-you will have to learn to load your own ammo
-a good source of brass: keith__davis@yahoo.com
-The 300 will be very accurate out to and beyond 200-300 yds
-Do not limit yourself to only subsonic loads
-The case capacity of the 300-221 fireball is similar to the 357 mag. but it can run a 52000 psi
-Hodgdon H110 is a good powder for super sonic loads. Hodgdon strongly recomends that you do not use it in for subsonic/reduced loads. H110 can be temp sensitive and pressures can vary. Here is a URL to a persons site that documents blowing up a barrels usnig light loads of H110: http://feistyrooster.com/300x221/300x221index.html

-Hodgdon Lil'Gun is a great power for super sonic loads.

-Accurate Arms has several subsonic loads listed. I have shot AA#9 for my subsonic loads and it was very consistent. Check my posts... I have listed the Accurate Arms loads on this site already. You can also go to the Accurate web site and get them there.

-Sierra Bullets has several loads listed. Contact them and they will send you pdf file with the loads... 110 gr to 240 gr bullets.... I have tried 125, 130, 150, 165, 175, 180, and 200 gr Sierra bullets and Nosler balistic tips and Speer 165. All run well. The Noslers tended to give higher pressures with lower powder charges than the Speer and Sierra bullets.


I do not have much experience with cans... can't help you with that


If you have any questions about your project you will find a lot of people will to share their experiences here.


Have fun building your porject

[sparhawk]

Thanks 320pf, for the advice. My friend at the local class 3 shop who is helping me with this project recommended Olympic Arms' barrels, also. He has one on his Whisper and loves it. I didn't know that they made barrels for so many other companies. I'll prbably end up going that route. What's up with all of the different names for the same round (whisper, 300-221, fireball, etc.). What are your thoughts on shooting sub and supersonic with the same rifle? Won't the 1:8 be just right for subsonic, but be too much twist for supersonic? Won't I end up having a different zero for each? I'm still foggy on that. I think I'm going to just make this a suppressed only rifle. The idea of loading my own ammo still scares me a bit. I'm not really crazy about my rifle blowing up in my face. So, I think I have some more reading to do before I try it. Thanks for the input. I welcome all of the advice I can get. I'm going to go try a few of those other web sites you sent.

[320pf]

Sparhawk,

Here is the story on why there are so many names for this round. When J.D. Jones of SSK industries first necked up the 221 fireball to 30 cal., he called the wildcat "300 Whisper". J.D. Jones then trade marked and copy righted the name. So if you use the name 300 Whisper you have to pay JD Jones his cut. Basically they are all the same round with slightly different (about 0.004" ) case lengths.

One accepted naming scheme for wildcat cartridges is the list the new wildcat caliber (300) followed by a hyphen and the name of the parent cartidge (221 fireball)... so you get 300-221 fireball. Because that is such a mouth full people often just call it a 300 fireball.

As far as shooting the gun with either subsonic or supersonic... the gun will shoot fine either way. Given the case volume of the 300-221 you can not over-dirve any of the .308 cal. bullets in a 1:8 twist barrel. So one gun can shoot them all with out any problem. But, you will have to use an adjustable gas block or gas tube. The diameter of the gas port has to be large enough to get enough gas into the bolt carrier group to operate the action with subsonic (read low pressure) loads. Supersonic loads will have a much higher gas pressure at the gas port so with an adjustabel gas tube or port you can close off the gas system so you will not over drive the the bolt-carrier group.

For the different zero I have a card in the butt stock with the different settings for the different loads and set the scopes windage and elevation to the load that I am shooting. You just have to remember what setting you left the scope... but you will fiugure out a system that works for you.

Lastly, reloading is not that difficult. Get a good reloading manual and follow the directions. Stay within the powder charge ranges given in the manuals and you will be OK. It is actually very satisfying to load and shoot you own ammo.

[dflicker]

Mike Brown of Jet Suppressors makes a small suppressor specifically for the 300 Fireball. It is 1 3/4" x 5 1/2" and is made of titanium. The price is a bit high at $965 but it might be the best option out there. I should have mine in 4-6 weeks. Mike can also provide 8" twist AR barrels made from Mike Rock blanks that should be considerably less expensive than the SSK barrels.

There is a video of a suppressed AR15 in 300 Fireball posted by Leitner-Wise Rifle Company at: http://media.putfile.com/LWRC2
Several comments on the video can be seen at the Leitner-Wise forum: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...f=171&t=152412

Leitner-Wise uses a self-regulating short-stroke piston which eliminates the need for an adjustable gas block. In addition, there is no superheated gas dumped into the action to bake carbon on to the bolt. It can be simply wiped down with a rag.

Corbin's has a set of dies to form a 220 grain subsonic bullet that can be seen here: http://www.corbins.com/bullets.htm#subsonic
The bullets are being made and sold be Chris Calloway of the Bullet Depot. Chris can be reached evenings (Pacific Time) or weekends at 541-826-2999 and he will send samples gratis.

My gun will have a 7 1/2" barrel, so with 1" of threads I should have a total barrel+suppressor length of about 12". Leitner-Wise will be showing these guns (hopefully I will have two) at SHOT 2007 in January, one with the Jet suppressor and the other with a full-size 308 can. We hope to shoot them full-auto against the HK MP5SD and various PDWs. Should be interesting.

Because we can't use the 'Whisper" name and to avoid sounding like a wildcat I am having my lowers and barrels marked "7.62x35". I know, we don't need another cartridge name, but if this is to ever become a standardized mil-spec cartridge there needs to be an appropriate designation. Does anyone else have a better idea?

Hope this helps.

David

[sparhawk]

320pf, I didn't know that there were so many options for the whisper in AR. Wow! I'm really liking ar15barrels.com. I'm going to send Randall my thoughts and see what he can come up with. He has one hell of a waiting list. I guess that says something about the quality of his product. He seems to have a lot of happy customers. All I need is some cash!!!! (and to make up my mind about what I want!)

dflicker, Thanks for the videos. Very cool! I could barely hear the 300 on my computer. I can't wait. But, I guess I'll have to. I've already been waiting almost 2 months for my can to arrive, then it will probably be another 6 months after it gets here for the paperwork, and another 6 months to build the upper, and another 6 months... you get the picture! Waiting Sucks!

And, I still want to know if a bigger suppressor is better than a smaller one. I know that the newer cans are more efficient and thus, smaller. But will my HVT be too big for whisper. At what point are baffle strikes a concern?

My wife wanted to know why I was building a gun that "didn't make any noise?" I told her that it was for the neighbor's barking dogs. Somehow, I don't think "Just because, I want to!" would have been good enough for her.

Thanks for the advice.

[dflicker]

Sparhawk,

I'd really recommend checking with Jet Suppressors for a barrel. Mike has some coming in next week. I know that Randall makes a good barrel but have heard that it can take up to 6 months to get one. Don't know for sure if this is true but it is worth checking out. Mike has 6 guns in this caliber and is an serious advocate of it.

David