LanCay Shallow Fuller? What's the verdict?

[pwcosol]

Since I began collecting the MPBS M9, I have arrived at these conclusions about Lan-Cay M9 production:
Very little seems to have been wasted. Components that did not meet mil-spec were set aside. These were often later used in commercial production. I also surmise some found their way back to fulfill military contract quotas when Lan-Cay was granted a waiver. Other components likely went "under the radar" and were utilized when there was a rush to meet a delivery deadline (I have at least one example).

This can make it difficult to separate actual military production bayonets from those cobbled up for the commercial market. Throw in enterprising sellers whom were able to obtain raw components to assemble a "Frankenbayonet" and you have confused things even more! Fortunately some of our advanced and long-time collectors have been sorting things out over time, and have a pretty good handle on it now. This Forum has been one of the only resources where such information has been posted for the benefit of collectors.

[Misfit-45]

Mister Moon,
You mention the following:
"The model 1992 that u have Misfit45 had a good end price : 360 $.
I bought these 92 model 375 $ in 2008 and 310 $ in 2009.
With the Fastex clip code 92."

The bayonet in question is in unissued condition and the scabbard is in absolute unissued condition. The Fastex clip is dated 93.

Are you saying that this is not the shallow fuller M9 of 1993 fame?
I know it's hard to tell for sure, but you seem very sure. Just wondering.
Marv

[Misfit-45]

Sometimes the close ups are a little too close for perspective. Here's a little more realistic comparison.
Marv

[Mister Moon]

My opinion about this http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-LAN-CAY-...p2047675.l2557 : It is a Std. fuller... I think the ends of the fuller were milled to a 180 Deg. round,
the rest of the fuller was forged, that is why it is rough ? The other M9 is a scrap blade... amen
Just my thought.

Some years ago, when Barry Brown the Lan-Cay Cie owner was with us, he had sent me as present the same model that you have.
I exchanged this model for an M9 BLUE.

If this bayonet was the model 93 it would have reached 900 dollars with my bid.

[Carlo]

Fabrizio,
I don't want to question your opinion, but this is what I think:
1) The final price of an auction on ebay is not a verdict about the authenticity of a collectible. A genuine shallow fuller was sold for $ 91 http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5555
2) The fact that the seller didn't even mention in the auction that this was a shallow fuller (because he/she probably didn't know anything about it), is something in favour of the authenticity. Just think about the rejected General Cutlery M9s: they were all corrected worded in the auctions (I bought myself one many years ago)
3) I think that you would need very specific machinery to modify the fuller the way you suggested: why take all the time and effort, and then sell the bayonet not even mentioning it was supposed to be something very rare?
Just my thoughts.
P.S. What is the "M9 BLUE"?

[Mister Moon]

Fabrizio,
I don't want to question your opinion, but this is what I think:
1) The final price of an auction on ebay is not a verdict about the authenticity of a collectible. RIGHT !
2) The fact that the seller didn't even mention in the auction that this was a shallow fuller (because he/she probably didn't know anything about it), is something in favour of the authenticity. Just think about the rejected General Cutlery M9s: they were all corrected worded in the auctions (I bought myself one many years ago) RIGHT !
3) I think that you would need very specific machinery to modify the fuller the way you suggested: Not inevitably !
The Lan-Cay factory was equipped well to make of numerous steel work
Just my thoughts.
P.S. What is the "M9 BLUE" ? The blue model made by Lan-Cay for the "civilian-market" with the old grip. Then, i gave this model to a good friend-fisher

[Misfit-45]

Hello folks,
I am trying to be very fair and unbiased in making the determination whether or not this M9 is a shallow fuller M9. I have made arguments against the shallow fuller idea, but they have not stood up to scrutiny. I thought the fuller was milled “short” making the fuller look as though it was a shallow fuller but wasn’t. I was wrong about the milling. The blade was roughly forged which, based on previous posts is not too uncommon among LanCay M9s.

In my last post, I provided a side by side picture which would visually indicate that the fuller on one M9 is significantly narrower than the other one. Why is that?.... if both M9s are of the standard variety? Are there other fullered 1992 M9s that are so narrow that they could be mistaken for a shallow fullered 1993? Maybe, but I have not seen one. By my measurements, the narrow fuller is about 10% narrower than the standard fuller.

Since my only reason to question the reality of this M9 being a shallow fuller was invalidated by the fact that it was forged that way and not milled, then I must therefore conclude that this is indeed a 1993 shallow fuller LanCay M9.

I am not however, concluding that this is absolutely one of the 350 delivered to the Army. What I am alleging is that this M9 was made in 1993 as a shallow fuller M9, but may have been held back and not sent to the Army. It has the early LanCay name, a hollow ground blade and a narrow fuller and none of the PI features of the later M9s.

I invite others to comment one way or the other. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thank you in advance. This forum is indeed a collection of the best minds in the M9 circle of collecting.

Marv

[Misfit-45]

Hi Folks,
Just one more picture. I measured the fullers on the three Phrobis III M9s I have. They all have fullers that measure a few thousandths wider than the standard LanCay I have been showing. Therefore the "scrap blade" LanCay is certainly suitable for comparison.
Thanks again.
Marv

[pwcosol]

I was under the impression all blades were forged and then finish-machined where necessary. Sometimes the finish-machining was minimal or sloppy. Here is a example of a shallow fuller blade utilized for commercial purpose/special order:

[Misfit-45]

I apologize, for the math errors and the transposition of numbers in my posts.
I have made the corrections.
One thing I would like to ask, with all the pictures of shallow fuller M9s. Why hasn't anyone posted their measurements?
Marv