Help me decide, or decide for me!

[rsilvers]

Originally Posted by ohnomrbillk

I appreciate there were numerous chamber variations in the wildcat days. It is cool for all the new comers to get a standardized chamber with the Blackout.......but it is still 300 Whisper.

Not true. The 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber is designed to allow for higher velocity.

Yes, it will fire, but you cannot shoot full power 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo in a 300 Whisper(R) chamber without exceeding SAAMI specs on max pressure.

Comparing 300 AAC BLACKOUT to 300 Whisper is like comparing 5.56mm to 223. They are not the same!

[ds762]

Originally Posted by rsilvers

The chambers are not the same, it is like comparing 5.56mm to 223. They probably re-ground it. Nothing wrong with that.

Mr. Silvers would you care to divulge how a 300/221 reamer can be re-ground to AAC BLACKOUT specs? This would imply that the blackout is dimensionally smaller than the 300/221 reamer from Dave Kiff. Where is it different?

Originally Posted by rsilvers

Not true. The 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber is designed to allow for higher velocity.

Yes, it will fire, but you cannot shoot full power 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo in a 300 Whisper(R) chamber without exceeding SAAMI specs on max pressure.

Comparing 300 AAC BLACKOUT to 300 Whisper is like comparing 5.56mm to 223. They are not the same!

please comment on the rest of ohnomrbillk's statements as I would like to hear your response on those matters too.

[ohnomrbillk]

Originally Posted by Alleycat

If AAC tells people that you can shoot the 300 Whisper, 300 Fireball, or 300-221 in a 300 Blackout chamber and someone blows themselves up ACC would be liable. You can't blame them for covering there ass.

I understand the necessity of covering your rear end for liability. Saying that they do not guarantee compatibility would be rather noble.

For those who were not familiar with what has been done with the Whisper for a long time, it would seem AAC is trying to take credit for inventing this round as though it was their own novel idea. I don't agree with that morally.

Taking credit for standardizing a wildcat is one thing. That is something I have not seen from AAC. Give credit where credit is due.

I sincerely applaud AAC for pushing this to mainstream. We will all benefit from it. I just don't agree with the politics.

Please cite anything that shows me different on what AAC has claimed in their public press releases.

[Alleycat]

Remington did not invent the 6.5-08
Norma did not invent the 6.5x285 and neither did Winchester.
Remington did not invent the 22-250
Winchester did not invent the 243
Newton invented a lot of Savages cartridges, but he was under contract. So it's not the 250/3000 Newton.
You get the point. AAC is marketing the hell out of the 300 Blackout. So did everyone else that standardized a wildcat. I have a 300 Whisper and a 300 Blackout. The only difference I can find is that the Blackout has a shorter throat. It makes sense. AAC went for reliability first. My Whisper never fails so who knows. They're not marketing the Blackout to us anyway. We know what it is. The general public has no idea what the hell it is. Think 7mm Rem Mag. The marketing for it killed the 6.5 Win Mag. You can fault AAC for some of the things they have done in the past, but this isn't one of those times. We could rail on Winchester and Norma for both coming out with the 6.5-284 or we could just shoot. If you're going to be pissed at AAC for the Blackout you have to be pissed at all the big name gun companies.

[ds762]

Originally Posted by ohnomrbillk

I understand the necessity of covering your rear end for liability. Saying that they do not guarantee compatibility would be rather noble.

For those who were not familiar with what has been done with the Whisper for a long time, it would seem AAC is trying to take credit for inventing this round as though it was their own novel idea. I don't agree with that morally.

Taking credit for standardizing a wildcat is one thing. That is something I have not seen from AAC. Give credit where credit is due.

I sincerely applaud AAC for pushing this to mainstream. We will all benefit from it. I just don't agree with the politics.

Please cite anything that shows me different on what AAC has claimed in their public press releases.

+1 .. I couldn't have said it better

[ohnomrbillk]

Originally Posted by Alleycat

They're not marketing the Blackout to us anyway. We know what it is. The general public has no idea what the hell it is. Think 7mm Rem Mag. The marketing for it killed the 6.5 Win Mag.

I think what bother's me is that their marketing will likely kill everything that says 300 whisper, 300 fireball, 300-221, etc, and there is some distinct compatibility with all of those cartridges and the Blackout.

7mm Rem Mag did kill the 6.5 Win Mag, but it would be quite challenging to shoot one in the other chamber.

I'm guessing that if you asked Remington where the 22-250 came from, they would tell you wildcatters were necking 250 Savage down to 22 caliber and called it 22 Varminter, and it was so successful that they adopted it as there own.

I appreciate that my example is of a different industry, but please try to think of this perspective. I am a student, and participate in medical research. We are required to publish. There is absolutely no doubt that everyone I work with stands on the shoulders of the physicians who came before us. Very minute differences in things we find today, or even a different perspective of looking at something is most of what we do. I see no problem with that. When we publish, we have to cite the people who came before us, and acknowledge that it was not our own. Failure to do so means I lose my license. Intellectual property is a big deal in my day to day, and if I did what AAC did, my ass would get sat out on the curb.

In no way am I saying that AAC is the first to do something like this, but it still doesn't make it right.

"We could ...., or we could just shoot" was Alleycat's suggestion. With that in mind, I apologize to the original poster for this rant. I suggest you have your smith do what is most compatible with what is going to be available (which will be 300 Blackout), and enjoy some good shooting.

[rsilvers]

Originally Posted by ds762

Mr. Silvers would you care to divulge how a 300/221 reamer can be re-ground to AAC BLACKOUT specs? This would imply that the blackout is dimensionally smaller than the 300/221 reamer from Dave Kiff. Where is it different?

They just grind the entire chamber shape a little further rearward on the tool. The 300/221 vs 300 AAC BLACKOUT chambers are different in every single area. Not one area is identical (though most areas might be nearly identical). Most of the difference is in the throat.

[Alleycat]

Fair enough.

[rsilvers]

Originally Posted by ohnomrbillk

Intellectual property is a big deal in my day to day, and if I did what AAC did, my ass would get sat out on the curb.

You seem to be saying that AAC did not acknowledge that the 300 Fireball, 300-221, or 300 Whisper(R) came first. We did. It is in the PowerPoint that AAC released to the press and I presented at a conference.

[rsilvers]

Originally Posted by ohnomrbillk

Please cite anything that shows me different on what AAC has claimed in their public press releases.

From AAC Media Kit:

Proven Track Record
Pioneering work by JD Jones with the 300 Whisper®, and others with 300 Fireball and 300-221, have proven the concept.

Perhaps the press should mention it more.