Need advice; buggering up cases trying to convert .223 to .300

[notenoughguns]

The expander button should be .05 to .07 from the base of the die without de caping pin . I never had to use lube on the expander plug and I've made 1000's of cases without problems , just lubed the outside with lanolin based lube.

[PFDD]

I've been running the expander far too high in the die body. Should have factored that in since the other function of the die is decapping (with the pin in place), so the pin has to be in reach of the fired primer and a bit more to punch it out. Just didn't think it would matter as long as I wasn't pushing the expander to the bottom of the case and buggering it up in the flash hole area.

Another fact I've been pondering is that I've got the Redding T-7 mounted on a Franklin Arsenal portable stand so I could do brass monkey chores in the family room, and I wonder if it imparts enough instability that the press leverage isn't smooth enough. Clearly there is more than sufficient leverage to crunch cases, but obviously that isn't my objective.

I'll try the expander much lower in the die body tonight and will switch out my lube after I've tried repositioning the expander. Failing that, I'll switch to one of the bench mounted presses to see if I'm inducing failures based on new dynamics.

Thank you for your input.

Best,

Brad

[amafrank]

I've been using an RCBS junior press for the full length sizing and decapping so I don't think leverage is the problem. There isn't really much effort required to work on this conversion of .223 to 300-221 since the amount of change to the brass is so slight. The location of the expander ball sounds like the biggest issue in your case. If the neck has entered the sizing portion of the die before the expander does then you are definitely going to have problems. There is just not enough clearance between the die wall and the expander with the case wall in between, especially with the military brass. The part of the case we are using tends to be thicker than a normal neck and will jam up the die or break the case as you've been doing. The only time I've even crumpled a neck is trying to expand a .221 case after annealling it. I have never even wrinkled a Lake City case...... Adjust the expander ball until it bottoms out on the case with the ram fully up and cammed over. You will have to do that with the decapping pin removed or with the primer already out. Once it makes contact with the case back it out a turn or two. You want to make sure you don't bottom out on the cases in practice and there is some variation in the web thickness. This will insure that the expander hits the neck at a point where the die is not supporting and wedging it. That allows the case to expand around the ball. It will then enter the portion of the die that squeezes it down to the proper dimension and then the ball will slip through the case neck from the inside and expand it to the correct finished diameter. As with not enough guns I've run many cases through the program with no lube on the expander and had no problems. It takes a bit more effort on the press handle but not much. I do normally lube because it helps avoid stretching the case necks and putting scratches in them.

Your shell holder should contact the die base and the handle should cam over somewhat. This insures that the die and press springback don't prevent the case from being pushed all the way into the die. You will find that the instructions from most if not all the die and press manufacturers are pretty basic. They assume you know something about what you are doing. I don't know if they are covering their asses for liability reasons or just figureing you should have some idea what you are doing already. In any case thats what boards like this excel in...help for all of us when we are a bit lost. Someone somewhere has had the problems before and figured it out.....

Last suggestion here is to get rid of the south african brass. You can't really use it and with the thicker case walls it has there is a possibility that its bending or otherwise screwing with your dies. There is a large variation in wall thickness between different manufacturers of military brass and that thickness can create big problems. I've had some brass that even neck turning wouldn't save. Bottom line is that if you can't use it get rid of it. The lake city stuff should be fine. I've use LC brass from the early 70's all the way to 06 headstamped brass and had no problems with any of it. If you are having problems with the LC than there is something wrong in your setup and you can use the lake city brass for a control. Its cheap enough and available enough that you can afford to destroy a few cases to get things setup right. Once you get that figured than you can start fiddling with the more expensive commercial brass like Federal or Winchester and not worry about killing cases.....be glad you aren't working with .221 fireball brass, it cost more than twice as much.

Frank

[PFDD]

Frank,

I sincerely appreciate your thorough reply.

What you've said makes perfect sense that I'm trying to expand the mouth of the case in the region of the die where I should be resizing it down. I may have slightly buggered up my expander button too.

Understood on the instructions, but I've gone through many cycles of feverish interest in one aspect or another of shooting/reloading and then let it go dormant for many years before dusting stuff off again and heading in some new direction. Changing calibers recently on a Dillon 650 was a major evolution to me because I hadn't done it in probably 10+ years and had to relearn how on top of cleaning and relubing it in the appropriate places. Fortunately the Dillon instructions are thorough and laden with pictures..! My experience base has big time gaps in it and I've never reformed new cases, yet I suspect I could have figured this out if I tried harder to analyze the steps as they were happening. As you've stated forums like this make a huge difference to someone like me, and I appreciate the efforts and suggestions of all involved. Leveraging the experience of others is the best asset I've had.

I keep the South African cases around as sacrificial offerings to the trimmer gods and such when changing case holders on the Giraud trimmer or setting up dies. I've spent some time with long range shooting so I match condition my cases short of neck turning and along the way there are steps which chew up a few pieces of brass. The last thing you want to do is chew up a Lapua match case when you can offer up some South African as long as you're not screwing the equipment up. LC cleans up nice and performs well as does IMI match brass and with match prepping and sorting is about as good as anything else. I use a lot of LC cases and that's what I intend to use with the .300 when I've got it dialed in.

I suspect with the expander in the right position within the die, my brief flurry of intense forum activity will end. I'll confirm when I've got them coming out properly.

Thanks again,

Brad

[Scalce]

Originally Posted by PFDD

I suspect with the expander in the right position within the die, my brief flurry of intense forum activity will end.

This board is too slow so go mess something else up so there are posts to read.

[PFDD]

No problem there as you're probably already figured out. When I get home I'll see if I can attach the PDF I got from Redding and failing that if you give me your email I'll send it to you.

I still haven't cut or recontoured my gas tube to fit in the TP555 gas block so I'm sure I can come up with some drama there and then how to get and keep the AR running with the right subsonic load. Stand by, I'll come up with some other mini series.

Thanks for your help.

Brad

[PFDD]

Update:

Amazing what happens when you run the expander button at the correct height in the die....!

Just tried two Lake City once fired cases and what do you know; smooth as butter with little leverage and far less lube required. The entire difficulty was induced (well by ignorance) but you've helped me through it and I appreciate the assistance.

Here are the Redding instructions for forming 300/221 cases using .223 cases:

CASE FORMING INSTRUCTIONS
300/221 Remington FROM 223 Remington BRASS
DIES REQUIRED:
1.300/221 Remington Form & Trim Die
2. #10 Extended Shell holder
3.300/221 Remington F.L. Die Set

BRASS REQUIRED:

Cases for the 300/221 Remington can be made by necking and reforming 223 Remington brass. It is desirable to use new unfired brass for forming. As it has not yet been work hardened by repeated firings, it is softer and easier to form.

There is always a potential problem when case forming from one caliber to another. The neck wall thickness may increase. You should be aware of this problem and its potential dangers. You may encounter this problem when making 300/221 Remington cases from 223 Remington brass. Reaming or neck turning of the case necks may be necessary in order to
produce cases that will chamber and function safely.

SEQUENCE:
1.300/221 Remington Form & Trim Die functions as Form #1. Cut and file off excess and then debur.
2. Final size using the standard 300/221 Remington F.L. Die.
3. Inside neck ream or outside neck turn cases if necessary.

CAUTION: A note of caution applies to "wildcat" calibers and all case forming operations.

WATCH THE NECK DIAMETER. If insufficient space is available in your chamber to allow the case necks to "open up" and release the bullet, very dangerous pressures can result. Any difficulty in chambering is a caution flag!
If possible compare the neck diameter measurements of a previously fired case from your chamber with those of a loaded round. The neck diameter of the fired case should be a minimum of .002-.003" larger than the unfired one. If in doubt, consult a competent gunsmith.

If you should have any questions concerning the above procedure, contact:

REDDING RELOADING EQUIPMENT
1089 STARR ROAD
CORTLAND, NY 13045
tech Iine@redding-reloading.com
REDDING-HUNTER INCORPORATED 1089 STARR ROAD CORTLAND, NEW YORK 13045 TELEPHONE: 607-753-3331

Thanks again gents.