Need advice; buggering up cases trying to convert .223 to .300

[PFDD]

Update;

Spoke with the tech support folks at Redding and they do have written instructions for using .223 as the parent case so they're sending those and the instructions on the Form and Trim die.

It seems I was too conservative in the F&T setting where I backed it off a full turn from shellholder contact. They instructed me to go to cam over which ought to give me better results.

On the full length sizing using the .30 expander, suggestions were directed at the use of the tubing cutter having constricted the neck too much.

I'll give it another run.

Thanks for your assistance.

[Scalce]

I'd be interested to see those instructions when you get them.

If you have a soft copy.

[PFDD]

Scalce,

So far I do have the instructions in soft copy of the .223 case forming but if anything they're more basic than the .221 instructions. I have the PDF version and you're welcome to it. Nothing yet though on the F&T die. You're welcome to that too when I have it. Redding indicated they might have to snail mail that to me if it wasn't scanned.

Unfortunately I tried 4 more cases tonight without success;
1. South African once fired- snapped the neck off in the FL sizing die using the .30 caliber expander
2. Lake City once fired- same, snapped the neck off
3. Winchester once fired-snapped neck but case stayed together with neck portion rotating
4. Winchester new brass-crumpled neck just before cam over

The cases this evening were cleaned, lubed with Imperial Sizing die in and out and on the expander button. All were rough trimmed with a hacksaw while in the F&T die then inside and outside chamfered before being relubed and trying the FL sizing die. After snapping off the first two necks, I backed off the expander plug until it just touched the neck with the ram fully up and started screwing it down a quarter turn at a time until I felt the case give and the neck seperated but stayed attached to the base allowing full rotation. Final try with a new case and same procedure followed until I felt the neck crunch and wrinkle. The expander no longer has a smooth taper and has a visual and tactile depression but it still measures approximately .305 at its widest point.

The only positive outcomes are that the tubing cutter is eliminated as the source of issue as is new versus potentially work hardened once fired brass. I've managed to bugger South African, Lake City, new and once fired Winchester. There is an equipment or setting issue that has clearly yet to be resolved though I have eliminated a couple of variables.

Still looking for ideas if you have them. At this point, I'll be contacting Redding again tomorrow. Never had this kind of trouble even on much more complex equipment.

Thanks much,

Brad

[notenoughguns]

Sounds like the expander button is to close to the top of the die , try screwing it down a few more turns .

[Fritzcat]

notenoughguns, may have figured it. I deprime and FL size in my last step, so my expander is down enough to see about 3/16 of the deprime pin.

[PFDD]

Thanks gents,

Since I use a universal decapper and was also experimenting on the South African Berdan primed cases, I removed the decapping pin from the FL sizing die. I had been running the expander quite high but in one last try after my previous experience last night ruining the four cases, I prepped another new Winchester case in the same fashion (inlcuding the inside and outside lube) and screwed the expander down much further. I ran the case up and could tell by the resistance encountered that I was likely in trouble so I pulled the case out and I'd crumpled the neck again but short of separating it.

I'm now wondering if my Imperial Sizing lube is adequate for the interior neck expansion as I run the case mouth approximately 1/4-3/8 from the top of the expander and the cases go no further. From that point I either crunch and wrinkle the cases or I crunch and separate the neck portion from the shoulder. A distant posibility is that there is something wrong with the die or expander dimensions, but I'm still focused on a failing in my settings or lube. I think I'll try again with a different lube and reset the expander low enough that it would be punching the primers out if I had the decapping pin in place. Might just have to sacrifice a few additional Lake City or Winchester cases and actually punch out the primers. Hate to risk good brass given my "Hall of Shame" collection of crunched and separated cases but will give it another go.

By the way, Redding contacted me by email today to indicate that:

"We don't have any instructions for trim dies. Sorry. They are normally adjusted to make firm contact with the shellholder. If a lot of case sticks above the top of the die, cut it off with a 32 tpi hacksaw blade and file with a fine cut file. If only a little of the case sticks out, just use the file." Not much info there but better than what came with the die....

Thanks again,

Brad

[notenoughguns]

The expander button should be .05 to .07 from the base of the die without de caping pin . I never had to use lube on the expander plug and I've made 1000's of cases without problems , just lubed the outside with lanolin based lube.