Need advice; buggering up cases trying to convert .223 to .300

[PFDD]

Frank,

Thank you for your reply.

On the Form and Trim die, one reason I was hesitating to use a hacksaw was the crowded access on the T-7 turret and the resulting brass debris since I was temporarily working the cases in the family room vice the normal loading room (den). Just trying to be social and not have the boss on my tail. That said, I'll give it a run in the proper environment but I did notice that it seemed like I can't manipulate much variation in OAL. I screwed the die in and backed it off but the result seemed to be the same OAL except for variation in the length of the neck.

I lubed the inside and outside of the case and even rubbed lube directly on the expander which are the long tapered variant not ball shaped. I'm starting to believe my tubing cutter trim is the culprit as Fritzcat suggested and your suggestion of the hacksaw cut or another cleaner cutting tool should not change the brass dimensions as much prior to running the expander through.

Understood on the Redding instructions but the fact is that there are indeed two viable parent cases and as long as both create safe & accurate ammo it seems a bit incomplete to address only a single parent case source. Clearly I didn't come with the complete case forming knowledge set and even the Redding website is spare on instructions and so far the few loading books I've looked at haven't been much help either. Hence the appeal for help here among folks who are far more experienced.

As to the brass, I was using the South African once fired only to see if I could correctly form the cases and will use Lake City almost exclusively after I can produce correctly dimensioned cases to satisfaction. So far I'm glad I went that route as I've buggered up about 8 cases out of 12. No harm no foul on throw-away cases but I more jealously guard cases that are effectively match prepped except that I'm not turning the necks. I don't have all that much time so the "Brass Services" post from Hoser next to mine is fortuitous. I need to get an advertising cut; I'm hooking him up as a representitive of the inept newbee in need of adult assistance.

Best,

Brad

[PFDD]

Update;

Spoke with the tech support folks at Redding and they do have written instructions for using .223 as the parent case so they're sending those and the instructions on the Form and Trim die.

It seems I was too conservative in the F&T setting where I backed it off a full turn from shellholder contact. They instructed me to go to cam over which ought to give me better results.

On the full length sizing using the .30 expander, suggestions were directed at the use of the tubing cutter having constricted the neck too much.

I'll give it another run.

Thanks for your assistance.

[Scalce]

I'd be interested to see those instructions when you get them.

If you have a soft copy.

[PFDD]

Scalce,

So far I do have the instructions in soft copy of the .223 case forming but if anything they're more basic than the .221 instructions. I have the PDF version and you're welcome to it. Nothing yet though on the F&T die. You're welcome to that too when I have it. Redding indicated they might have to snail mail that to me if it wasn't scanned.

Unfortunately I tried 4 more cases tonight without success;
1. South African once fired- snapped the neck off in the FL sizing die using the .30 caliber expander
2. Lake City once fired- same, snapped the neck off
3. Winchester once fired-snapped neck but case stayed together with neck portion rotating
4. Winchester new brass-crumpled neck just before cam over

The cases this evening were cleaned, lubed with Imperial Sizing die in and out and on the expander button. All were rough trimmed with a hacksaw while in the F&T die then inside and outside chamfered before being relubed and trying the FL sizing die. After snapping off the first two necks, I backed off the expander plug until it just touched the neck with the ram fully up and started screwing it down a quarter turn at a time until I felt the case give and the neck seperated but stayed attached to the base allowing full rotation. Final try with a new case and same procedure followed until I felt the neck crunch and wrinkle. The expander no longer has a smooth taper and has a visual and tactile depression but it still measures approximately .305 at its widest point.

The only positive outcomes are that the tubing cutter is eliminated as the source of issue as is new versus potentially work hardened once fired brass. I've managed to bugger South African, Lake City, new and once fired Winchester. There is an equipment or setting issue that has clearly yet to be resolved though I have eliminated a couple of variables.

Still looking for ideas if you have them. At this point, I'll be contacting Redding again tomorrow. Never had this kind of trouble even on much more complex equipment.

Thanks much,

Brad

[notenoughguns]

Sounds like the expander button is to close to the top of the die , try screwing it down a few more turns .

[Fritzcat]

notenoughguns, may have figured it. I deprime and FL size in my last step, so my expander is down enough to see about 3/16 of the deprime pin.

[PFDD]

Thanks gents,

Since I use a universal decapper and was also experimenting on the South African Berdan primed cases, I removed the decapping pin from the FL sizing die. I had been running the expander quite high but in one last try after my previous experience last night ruining the four cases, I prepped another new Winchester case in the same fashion (inlcuding the inside and outside lube) and screwed the expander down much further. I ran the case up and could tell by the resistance encountered that I was likely in trouble so I pulled the case out and I'd crumpled the neck again but short of separating it.

I'm now wondering if my Imperial Sizing lube is adequate for the interior neck expansion as I run the case mouth approximately 1/4-3/8 from the top of the expander and the cases go no further. From that point I either crunch and wrinkle the cases or I crunch and separate the neck portion from the shoulder. A distant posibility is that there is something wrong with the die or expander dimensions, but I'm still focused on a failing in my settings or lube. I think I'll try again with a different lube and reset the expander low enough that it would be punching the primers out if I had the decapping pin in place. Might just have to sacrifice a few additional Lake City or Winchester cases and actually punch out the primers. Hate to risk good brass given my "Hall of Shame" collection of crunched and separated cases but will give it another go.

By the way, Redding contacted me by email today to indicate that:

"We don't have any instructions for trim dies. Sorry. They are normally adjusted to make firm contact with the shellholder. If a lot of case sticks above the top of the die, cut it off with a 32 tpi hacksaw blade and file with a fine cut file. If only a little of the case sticks out, just use the file." Not much info there but better than what came with the die....

Thanks again,

Brad