458 SOCOM: the journey begins!

[Rikky Lee]

Well thanks to all the discussion about the 458 SOCOM in the threads below I have had to start building one.

Have got cases, just ordered a reamer and chasing a barrel. Reloading dies and a supply of projectiles to follow.

The cases feed nicely in the AICS magazine and the Rem 700 SA.

Watch this space!

[d-mon]

Hi,
Congratulation and good luck.
Mine might be ready by the end of the month.
Have a look on grafs.com for the dies. They sell some Lee dies for $28 which is the cheapest you will find anywhere. I paid $150 at CH4D.

Cases might be available from them as well.
Reamer from pacific tool.
Barrel from Pac-nor for exemple.
I have a 1 in 13" but most people tend to go with 1 in 14"

ND

[Spook]

It must be something in the water :confused: ...I ordered a 9.3 twist from Rock Creek a few weeks back. I'd done two others prior and got rid of the AR. The Savage barrel is still around here somewhere..

Since my last effort I've acquired a 458 throating reamer and have an idea about some Lehigh brass solids that weigh 528 gr and have a calculated BC of .828 :smile:

Best wishes for both your builds...be sure and post progress reports.

[Rikky Lee]

Far too many interesting threads on the 458 recently I think!!! not to mention that I'm loving the range of 458 projectiles already - and not yet bought any!

I'm thinking to go for an 18 - 20 inch barrel on the bolt gun.

Spook: why the 9.3 twist? More importantly - what effective range do you think we can get from the VLDs and what velocity?

ND: any differences from your perspective on the rifle twist?

What about torque at the faster twists? I'm expecting quite a twist from the rifle if I push a heavy projectile out fast.

Off to Grafs now...

[Spook]

Rik, Specs say 10 twist to stabilize the Lehighs but I went a little tighter ....just in case.
I'm looking for 600 yds and better with a bullet with that much BC ...1060 fps. Looking for a reason to sell my 510. The API's I was getting such a kick out of are getting hard to find in a "hand pulled" grade. The machine pulled/resized arent as accurate.

[redtazdog]

What is the advantage of the 458 over the 45-70
besides it will work in a AR platform ?

[d-mon]

Rikky Lee: Everybody goes with 1 in 14, I decided to go with 1 in 13" just in case; it was available from Pac nor as a 3 grouves barrel as well, which is supposed to reduce initial peak pressure.

We will see the result when I shoot the gun.
For the moment I have stocked 350 gr and 400 gr Speer bullets.

redtazdog: 45/70 works well: into a single shot rifle with a falling block, or contender and encore or in a siamese Mauser.

It is a parallele wall case,with a straight column of powder, which is technicaly not as accurate as a short fat case with a shoulder (problem of alignement in the chamber, and consistency of powder burning), but that does not mean that a 45/70 can not perform well at 1000yards. Proof is in the good results that some guys get into their falling block rifles (with sometime a lot of tweaking!).

The 45/70 has too much powder capacity compared to the 458 socom, which can give inconsistency in powder placement in the case and variation in velocities when loaded subsonic. An alternative would be to use the 45 silhouette, which is a 45/70 case trimmed down to reduce its case capacity.

Also, there is another cartridge , the 458 1"1/2 that can have the same purpose, but with a magnum bolt face required and again ,it is a straight wall cartridge.

ND

[Rikky Lee]

ND: you took the words out of my mouth wrt the 45/70.

Just about to order some reloading dies - I read some so-so comments about the Lee set but that one does have a belling die for lead projectiles. Otherwise the Hornady dies seem to be in stock - but a 2 die set only.

Any advice from the 458 socom reloaders before I put my money down?

[redtazdog]

Ahhh then 458 socom it is :smile:
I have been wanting to do a bolt action or TC integral with
a 458 cal bullet but couldnt make up my mind.
A single shot should be much quieter than my AR I hope.

[Spook]

http://usera.ImageCave.com/Spook/Theother cartridge.JPG
The last time I was working with the 458 Socom I was shooting these 525 gr (I think) swaged lead bullets.
What was most surprising was how much deeper they penetrated than 300 whisper and how much more devastating they were on cinderblock targets at distance.
Since building the 338 and 510's I never shoot the 300 anymore.

[snipecatcher]

That 458 bullet reminds me of this:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/ddsr5/726435841_m.jpg

[ohnomrbillk]

I've been thinking about building one of these for some time. My only hang up is finding a suppressor. Do you guys have one in mind? Thanks for the great info. Bill

[Rikky Lee]

Spook - which dies would you recommend? The Lee (for lead) or the Hornady (for quality)?

[Spook]

Normally I'd go with Hornady but in this instance I liked the flaring die that came with the Lee set. The cost of the Lee's didnt upset me either:smile:

Lee also makes a small, inexpensive powder measure that I throw most all my subsonic and pistol loads with. Its been every bit as accurate as my Redding BR measure, but I never get any "kernel crunch" with the Lee. I also like their collet dies.

[Rikky Lee]

Lee dies and a 1/14 twist barrel have been ordered.

Everything (best case) looks like arriving in December so that is the Christmas project identified and organised.

Only thing needed now is some projectiles.

[dvanncvann]

Lee dies and a 1/14 twist barrel have been ordered.

Everything (best case) looks like arriving in December so that is the Christmas project identified and organised.

Only thing needed now is some projectiles.

Ive had good results with the Hornady 325 gr FTX bullets.

[Rikky Lee]

dvanncvann: you can't leave us hanging like that! Load details please:- powder/weight; results and distance and have you gone hunting with it? How did the Hornady's work?

The good news on my front is the Lee dies have arrived, the barrel should be not far away and the reamer looks to be here in the next week or so.

EDIT: I was wrong - the reamer arrived today!

[SwampF0X]

I've been thinking about building one of these for some time. My only hang up is finding a suppressor. Do you guys have one in mind? Thanks for the great info. Bill

This is a major concern for me as well. I like the idea of having a big bore for hunting but I want to keep it quiet. I would like to be able to shoot my rifle outside and not be heard inside.


swampf0x

[HUNTER2]

What is the top wt bullet you are looking at to stbz. in the 1/14

[Rikky Lee]

I'm interested to see how high we can go. There are some 550 grainers that I would like to try but I think 330 Barnes and 400 grain lead will end up being the choice.

[Alleycat]

1 in 14 is supposed to stabilize a 600gr Barnes original at 900fps. Let me know if you find one. I know it will stabilize a 530gr bullet in a 7" barrel.

[Rikky Lee]

Alleycat - good news on the heavy projectiles stabilizing. What velocity are you getting with the 530s?

[Alleycat]

21.5 grs of VV N110 gets me about 1050 fps
22.0 grs of VV N110 gets me in the high 1080s

Zero pressure signs on the brass. Cases are not thrown far from the gun. I was a little worried about a 7" gun, but so far it runs 100% with subs.

[Rikky Lee]

May or may not produce a bit more velocity with a 16 inch barrel but it is a great starting point - especially for 550 grains.

Thanks.

[dvanncvann]

dvanncvann: you can't leave us hanging like that! Load details please:- powder/weight; results and distance and have you gone hunting with it? How did the Hornady's work?

The good news on my front is the Lee dies have arrived, the barrel should be not far away and the reamer looks to be here in the next week or so.

EDIT: I was wrong - the reamer arrived today!

Im loading 32 gr of 296. OAL-2.20. IIRC velocity was around 1825 fps. groups avg 1.5" at 100 yds from the bench with a 1x4 Millett DMS. I hope to test on a deer this month. YMMV.

[Wicked]

Since my last effort I've acquired a 458 throating reamer and have an idea about some Lehigh brass solids that weigh 528 gr and have a calculated BC of .828 :smile:

Any update on the progress of this combo? I had been looking at doing something subsonic in .510 to launch A-Max's; but since having seen pics of the big beautiful Lehigh's loaded up in 458's -I think this might be the way I go. If they would feed from a Savage centerfeed Long action that would seal the deal.

[Spook]

The barrel's in ,7 groove Rock Creek but beyond that ....There hasnt been enough time.

Lou Boyd can probably tell you about the loaded length and ballistics. My trying this round a third time was inspired by his pics.
I dont doubt you'd be able to seat the bullet a little deep if getting it to feed due to excess OAL is an issue.

[ieddoctor]

Need load data for the Hornady 325 FTX

[dvanncvann]

look here
http://458socomforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10

[Rikky Lee]

My barrel just arrived today - straight cylinder Douglas blank - enormous and my smith is going to have fun slimming it down.

What length now is the question for a bolt action. I'm thinking 18 inches to start with.

Comments?

[Spook]

I'm looking for a way to backbore my 16" down to 12" of rifling and crown,with 4" of "free bore" to the muzzle.
MartyTW has had this caliber functional in 8" of barrel.

[Rikky Lee]

Thanks Spook, I have read on Marty's board that too much pressure wastes these cases and I think that with 18 inches to start with I can then trim a few inches in a few months when I have got the hang of things.

I really am interested in trying the heavy 500 plus grain VLDs at longer than usual range and part of me thinks that 18 inches would help get that accuracy.

Anyone done this yet?

[d-mon]

Hello,
I got my gunsmith on the phone last week.
He is working on the winchester action (blueprinting) and the pacnor barrel next week.
We have agreed to cut the barrel to 14". The muzzle will be threaded at 22mm diameter with a 1mm picth for 15mm long.

The barrel being a 1 in 13" I will not launch pills heavier than 500gr. Probably conventional lead cast bullet actually, as the flash jacketed boat tail bullet from US of A are not available here in that caliber.

I will have to work on the can next.
I posted on another forum for ideas of internal design that may work with the socom, but it seems that they do not know much about the subject and are more interested by pistol cans.(or they have terrible secrets to hide: fair enough!:rolleyes:)

Soon, the 458 socom will be mine! I can't wait!

ND

[HUNTER2]

Have seen some AR barels that were short with a permanately pinned flash suppressor. Cut off, rethread and tap, bore out, screw back on and silver solder, or pin ????

[Rikky Lee]

The trick is to permanently bond the barrel extension with either super expensive two part glue (I had access to someone once - he told me the price per unit of this stuff) or silver soldering. Easier than back boring which can sometimes leave a little to be desired in Target Rifles for example.

I have asked my guy to turn the (simply massive 1.2" diameter) barrel down to 0.9" (at least) straight taper. I'm hoping to persuade him to go 0.8!

[Rikky Lee]

The rifle is nearly complete and I am thinking about starting loads.

Is it true that only Large Pistol primers are recommended? Why not Large Rifle primers?

[d-mon]

Hello Ricky,

The lrge rifle primers do not work simply because the primer pockets are just deep enough for pistol primer and not deep enough for rifle primer.
Maybe you could ream the primer pocket deeper with a special tool like the one sold by K&M but I am not sure if there would be enough material left at the base of the case.

I called my gunsmith this week and he has still not finished to builmy 458 socom.
At least I got a cheap lyman mould to cast 405gr bullets for later on.

ND

[Rikky Lee]

Ahhhh.

Well I think I will be visiting some gunshops in the next few days.

I "need" to get my fingers on the 500 grain RNs and then some 500 plus grain VLDs in the next few weeks...

[Fritzcat]

Show us a pic of your rifle so we can drool over it.

[thehouseproduct]

I'm looking for a way to backbore my 16" down to 12" of rifling and crown,with 4" of "free bore" to the muzzle.
MartyTW has had this caliber functional in 8" of barrel.

Is this so you can develop a SBR load while waiting for the stamp?

[Rikky Lee]

The barrel has now been chambered and I assembled the rifle last night.

The AICS stock makes it feel heavy - my smith didn't turn the barrel down as far as I wanted - but all cleaned up and shiny that hole in the front is MASSIVE.

Still to find some large pistol primers.

[Wicked]

Pics please!!

Are you building a can for this?

[Rikky Lee]

Pics will be posted shortly - once I work out how to do it!

The plan is to get some loads together from either end of the spectrum to see how the thing performs. There are from 500 plus grain VLDs out there that need to be tried at around 1000fps. I will keep the basic rig as simple as possible until then.

[Alleycat]

Pics will be posted shortly - once I work out how to do it!


I can put them up for you.

[Rikky Lee]

Allycat - I'll send you a picture of the rifle shortly. Many thanks for your kind offer.

First range report fills me with hope. At 50 for a zero and load development session the bullets are cutting ragged one hole groups. Up to 31.5 grains of H110 in the bolt action using Hornady 325 grain FTX and the primers are saying give me another few grains. More load development needed.

Shooting buddies watched with great interest and looking at the 500 grain load development!

[Alleycat]

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/alleycat72_bucket/IMG_0502.jpg
http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz229/alleycat72_bucket/IMG_0503.jpg
This is Rikky Lee's gun. Badass

[Rikky Lee]

Thanks Alleycat for posting.

The 325s work a dream and I have got them up to 1700fps with no issues. Recoil is nothing much to speak about in this setup but I can understand why AR-15s kick and buck.

Working on 500 and 550 grain loads now.

[Spook]

Nice Rifle Rik, I have an excell file of 458 loads if you want it.

[Fritzcat]

That is a very nice rifle. I finally have some brass coming, bfarrin1 is selling me some of his. I have some 510gr cast coming. I have 5lbs of Trail Boss that I would like to use, but have Lil Gun, Win 296, and RL7. Anyone have suggestions for sub-sonic.

[Rikky Lee]

Thanks to LouBoyd and Spook for their help and advice on load development.

I tried the 550 grain loading with a bit more powder and a deeper projectile seating over the chrony - 1065fps. I need to try it at longer range now to check for the dreaded vertical string but it felt good and three shots cut a single hole at 30 yards - lighter loads haven't.

I love the 325 FTX at 1700 fps though (and room for a bit more velocity).

Need more range time!

[ohnomrbillk]

Nice Rifle Rik, I have an excell file of 458 loads if you want it.

Spook,
Can you bounce that excel file my way?
Thanks,
Bill

[Spook]

On its way Bill :smile:

[ohnomrbillk]

On its way Bill :smile:
Spook,
It didn't get to me. Can we try again?
Thanks,
Bill

[Spook]

on its way again:smile:

[Rikky Lee]

Don't know whether to start a new thread or not but had the 458 out in a tactical match on a "smack the smiley" type target.

I shot poorly using the 325 grain Hornady with 40 grain of H4198 but won - the use of a 458 removes any evidence of the "smiley" from the target. The bolt gun is a better alternative to a semi - and an AI stock with a 22x NXS helps a lot.

The problem I had was riding the stock properly through recoil. When I did my part with it the bullet hit where I wanted it to but the rear stock would slide up my hand on the butt.

Over all very positive. Want to go hunting with it now!

[Fritzcat]

Got any pics please!!!!!

[Rikky Lee]

Rifle and ammo are on page 5.

The targets were too torn up to bother recording = though the taste of victory was sweet.

The 325s do a good job on a bowling pin too. Not a carved wound channel like the 300 Wing Mag more just a brute smashing of the wood.

Who said they had a nice sub 500grn RN load going? I checked my velocity and it was about 1500fps.