.338 whisper

[fspic]

Is anyone whispericatin' in .338 on the 7mmBR hull? I have SSK's Hornady conversion die set and have punched out one round. I have some 225 and 250 gr. copper jacketed spitzer rounds coming in. Will be able to load ammo but still have to order a barrel for my savage 110F.

The ReloadBench did have some traffic on this caliber w/ suggested loads.

[Quarterbore]

Can you post some pics? I have considered looking at a wildcat based on a shortened 308 necked to 338 to what-ever length case could still seat a VLD 338 bullet and cycle in a normal short action magazine (AR-10, FAL, M14, BoltGun).

I am guessing that this would be very similar to what you are doing or perhaps a little longer case...

Here is your 7mmBR case:



compared to the 308...

[fspic]

I can't provide a pic as am still waiting for bullets to come and everything else is scattered about. The problem is I can't decide what sort of barrel to get and what twist to specify for a given weight of bullet. This will be for glorified target practice, etc, and will likely wind up shooting solid lead rounds.

I was considering Douglas but noted some good word for lilja and I have talked to Pac Nor about barrels. Would consider a poly bore and I think Lilja has these in 8" and maybe Pac Nor as well. Length is an issue as I am inclined to go 20" and under as low and slow is my goal. I would like to know what sort of precision shooting has been done with these and especially in heavier loads. That will determine what weight of porjectile I will use which in turn affects barrel chambering as regards throating.

I am sort of spinning my wheels and trying to go several ways at the same time while determining which factor has to be settled first: barrel maker, twist, poly or groove, bullet format, etc.

[fspic]

I finally got some odd 225 and 250 gr. jacketed Hornady rounds for test fits into a couple necked out 7mmBR hulls. After slipping the beasties in I couldn't tell which projectile was which I then ordered a Frankford Arsenal bullet puller, 7mmBR brass, 7mm bullets and other doodads from Midway. I can now do some further forming and test loading.

I used a Lee three/four hole turrent press which is not really suited to full time forming of a lot of rounds because of the auto index. I'll get another heavy Lee press for serious work in forming.

I ordered a Douglas XX barrel in 22" length .338 Whisper with the reamer being provided by C-D reamers of Georgia (hope I got the second letter right). These guys say one reamer can do the job in one shot without a rougher - unless you can sorta-kinda drill it out a bit first. The barrel will be the same weight as the Savage varmint format as found on the stainless fluted type.

Thix is for a Savage 110F non-accu trigger action originally in 270 and my other one is 7mm Rem mag. I also have a .308 stainless barrel mentioned above. I ordered a Bishop stock in Sierra format which is a conservative sporter with 2.125" optional wider forearm, a modest cheekpiece, channel suited to the barrel, a 1" buttpad, and in solid walnut. However that will take about 8-9 weeks to arrive.

I have an XP-100 beating about somewhere which I managed to mislay. How can anyone lose something like that with a 14" barrel? I can use it as is in 7 mmBR but will sleeve the bbl. to get over 16" and take the aluminum block race gun stock and put a butt on it. Then I can legally register the thing as a rifle as pistols are massively persecuted in Chicago. I could go to .338 Whisper with that using a dedicated SSK barrel rifled to a particular weight of projectile or I could go to the Whisper variants in the smaller calibers - believe there is a 7mm based on the .221 Fireball which would enable me to overlap some of the projectiles with what is used in the 7 Rem mag.

[Greywuuf]

Just as a side note, you can do all of the things you said to the xp100 but in the eyes of the law ( BATF) it will still be a pistol. you may be able to "register" it in the state you are in, but once the serial number is proclaimed a pistol it will always be a pistol .. and since we are talking technicalities here, it is more properly a handgun.

[Quarterbore]

What Greywuuf said is correct in that as if your receiver was built originally as a pistol it is a pistol forever (UNLESS YOU REGISTER IT AS A SBR or AOW)... With that said, if you take a pistol receiver and build it as a rifle I am quite confident that nobody would recognize it as a pistol and there isn't anything illegal about making a pistol look like a rifle (Contender as the example).

Also, as for loosing guns... I have an AR-15 upper that seems to be lost at home somewhere and it has a 20-inch barrel...

If I were looking to do what you are describing I would be very tempted to look at a Remington Model 7 action as I am pretty sure it is essentially the same action as the XP-100. Then again, I don't have an XP-100 sitting around that I could chop up either but a matching carbine and pistol in this cartridge could be a lot of fun ;)

[fspic]

I talked to SSK Industries about this and they said it isn't necessary to notify the ATF (I am interpreting the brief comment) to make sure the thing is listed as a (dealer) converted rifle of legal overall length and minimum barrel length.

I think that if something with identical receivers in rifle and pistol form (as with this design) is changed to the rifle format then it is an uncheangeable rifle forever unless authority is obtained under a particular license to "de-convert".

Not an issue as when I find the damn thing I will have made the inquiry with the ATF and possibly ship to Douglas who will mount such a barrel for $395 in my choice of length and caliber.

Douglas called a couple days ago and we confirmed my Savage 110F barrel would be in XX heavy barrel format as per Savage's stainless fluted varmint type, 22" long, 1 in 10 wtist in .338 Whisper. They had the reamer from 4-D and would be done in a couple days. I chose a longer barfel as I could always play with it and shorten it.

I obtained some odd 225 and 250 gr Hornadies and fit a couple in expanded 7mmBR cases. Mmmmmm....tasty. Much like the AK-47 rounds I brought back from Nam. Compact and business-like.

[Quarterbore]

Originally Posted by fspic

I talked to SSK Industries about this and they said it isn't necessary to notify the ATF (I am interpreting the brief comment) to make sure the thing is listed as a (dealer) converted rifle of legal overall length and minimum barrel length.

I agree, you don't need to let the BATFE know as there is nothing they can or are going to do with that info... As for making a "LISTING" change... this is not an NFA registered weapon so it can not be changed! once a pistol always a pistol... once a rifle always a rifle!

Originally Posted by fspic

I think that if something with identical receivers in rifle and pistol form (as with this design) is changed to the rifle format then it is an uncheangeable rifle forever unless authority is obtained under a particular license to "de-convert".

I disagree 100%... You have a pistol and it was sold and transfered as a pistol. While it is completely legal to configure a pistol as a rifle the pistol always remains a pistol. This normally more of a problem with a receiver built as a rifle as you can NEVER make a pistol from a rifle receiver... Take as an example an AR-15 rifle... we can not legally make a pistol from it but we can buy a new stripped lower and build a pistol... I use this to my advantage as my AR-15 Pistol was first assembled as a pistol. Now I can configure it as a rifle and shoot it and then convert back to a pistol any time I want... yes, with the XP-100 it isn't as easy but the law is still the same...

Originally Posted by fspic

Not an issue as when I find the damn thing I will have made the inquiry with the ATF and possibly ship to Douglas who will mount such a barrel for $395 in my choice of length and caliber.

Following up with the BATFE is not a bad idea but really not necessary IMHO... The only real concern I would have is that it would be a pistol on the books even though it looks like a rifle. I have no idea what that might do to any state or city laws that you live under as it is a crazy sort of example...

Otherwise, still sounds like a fun project... Good Luck!

[d-mon]

Originally Posted by fspic

Is anyone whispericatin' in .338 on the 7mmBR hull? I have SSK's Hornady conversion die set and have punched out one round. I have some 225 and 250 gr. copper jacketed spitzer rounds coming in. Will be able to load ammo but still have to order a barrel for my savage 110F.

The ReloadBench did have some traffic on this caliber w/ suggested loads.

Hello fspic,
your prodject seems interesting.
I do not know that cartridge very well, but maybe you will have better results by expanding the neck of 6mmbr Norma brass. As they are the best available on the market. You will probably have better neck tension and more regular internal volume,with them and therefore better consistency from shot to shot.

Another thing that worries me, is the regular feeding of that cartridge from the rifle mag into the chamber.
The 6mmbr (parent cartridge) is very fussy and is known to be a nightmare for proper feed in rifles.
I am not sure the 338 is much better. maybe using a control round feed action like a Mauser, or winchester pre 64 could solve that problem .

Any way, you can still use your xp100 or savage 110 in single shot mode.
Good luke .
ND

[fspic]

I finally got the barrel from Douglas and bought from Midway a Lee "squeeze reloading kit" to use for impromptu necking of the used 7mmBr brass I had. I since got some new 7mmBr hulls from Midway as well. I did my initial opening of the necks on a four hole Lee turret press which I would otherwise use for pistol rounds intended for serious plnking or home defense rounds. This was under less than optimal conditions and I can't recall what sort of lube I used - maybe WD 40.

The Lee squeeze press is a nice piece of die casting in some kinda aluminum alloy. All sections are basically flat and square and while i think some slipover round handles would be useful at least you can force the ahndles together by leaning on a desk or even kneeling on it if necessary in worst cases.

With proper lube and adjustment it is possible to neck a 7mm to .338 with almost one fell swoop. I did crack some necks but who knows how many reloads the used rounds went through? The dies have to be "snuck up on" as there are one or two allen screws and a nut to tighten on these dies. The decapper expander has one set of issues to adjust and lock and the seater has other problems. Expect the usual learning curve. Actually I would have no objection to haveing two hand presses with each having one die. The justification is the reloader can then watch TV, swill beer, and still do simple operations like neck expansion. That should be followed by trimming which I didn't do.

I seated some spire point Hornady rounds in 225 and 250 gr sizes. The exposed lead tip can take a bit of damage and may likely have some anyway as obatined from someone's leftover stock. This can be corrected by a dull coarse file. I seated those in my decapped used expanded cases but found the fit of the square base a bit iffy at first. But in a seating die there is no great problem. However there is a good bit of careful sneaking up on the correct depth - easy to determine if your round has the locking cannelure. One round nicely folded in and the other is over it but not tipped in.

I noticed the neck seemed to tightly grip the bullet and fold over and around the bottom. The neck shows a bit of polish around the top where we expect contact with the dies but also at the bottom of the seated bullet. This lower bright ring gives the impression the neck is a bit constricted below the base of the bullet - which is not impossible as there might be a teensy amount of compression downwards of the neck - in fact I folded a few of these beasties striaght down into the hull.

I need a proper case trimmer though I am inclined to look at a motorized type or one which is either hand pulled on a cord or perhaps run by a separate forizontal or vertical power source. On the other hand a Harbor Freight cheapo 7" lathe at $395 or less might be worthwhile as the cost isn't that much worse than the finest trimmers - meaning perhaps 3.5 to 4 times as much and with plenty of other capabilities as well for simple work.

With boat tail bullets insertion should be easier and a case chamfer tool would aid as well. I will order 7mmBr dies for sizing and will follow w/ necking, trimming, chamering, etc.

I expect to go to lead rounds though this is a costly up front effort which requires a certain amount of labor - much beyond just ordering a box of jacketed commercial projectiles. SSK feels a 250gr is minimal for this version and a 300 is ideal weight. As this is an odd round and caliber I may as well go with tradition except for perhaps using lead rounds. I have no dedicated shooting purpose or target type. This will be a target round of sorts for any ranges I can find in the Chicago area and shooting will likely be 300 yds and less. I will try borderline subsonic shooting though suppressors aren't legal in Illinois. I might mount iron sights first.

The barrel is a near duplicate of the Savage 26" fluted stainless steel - I got one in .308 on the internet for $45. New. Mine Douglas is 22" and in unfluted chome moly. Their usual 6 grooves plus counterbored muzzle. Nice and shiny smooth inside compared to commercial barrels. Mine is XX grade which is guaranteed to be more or less straight to what is it - .0001"? Anyway this is better than I can do with any shooting skills I will be able to develop. My mind is still back in military training techniques of the sixties with iron sights.

The stock on order is a Richards microfit with traditional Sierra form w/ cheek piece, wide forend as in varmint style, wider channel and some kinda buttpad. This is solid walnut. I will likely add a bipod and sling swivels using either as required.

I tried feeding some rounds into the chamber but as this was a loose action I couldn't do it as I wasn't sure what was keeping things from closing. After some adjustments I decided I needed a stock - my plastic Savage stock wouldn't clear the barrel so I sawed the channel down on a table saw. Then I finished it with a saber saw on the other side. I was going to cut the forend off completely to use the stock as a toolholder but didn't do it as I need the grip at that point. With the unbolted action I was able to close on a round but feeding was a problem as this is a long action with a short round. The bolt when lightly pushed forward hung up a bit on the edge of the plastic follower. This can be cured with some filing. Actually a smart closing of the bolt would do just as well. However the short round tends to fly out of the receiver. A longer 300 gr lead round might be a bit less inclined to do that. The solution is a shorter follower and spring with a stuffer block in the rear of the magazine. I just saw this somewhere but will try some Savage sites for the parts and just improvise until it fits.

The existing rifle and barrel work well as regards balance but as the thing isn't properly bolted I don't exactly do the manual of arms with it. I expect to spend most of the year trying to properly form and load jacketed rounds and getting the sighted action properly mounted in a soundly finished and accessorized stock.