300/221 Recipe for AR

[Lawfficer]

I just bought an AR15 upper in 300/221 a/k/a 300 Whisper to mount on my Colt 6920 from Olympic Arms. I don't have very much reloading expirance at all, mostly shotguns. However, I have a friend that Im going to force into labor for me, He does have quite a bit of loading expirance.

So I need a recipe for a 300/221-300 whiper to be used in an AR15. I have two powders to use, Red Dot or Hogdgon 110. I guess Red Dot is a shotgun powder but on Accurate Reloading they used it. But it seems Hogdgon 110 is a pretty popular powder to load 300/221 with.

I will be using .223 brass resized but I also have .221 Fireball brass. The primers are the standard 205M and the bullet I want to use are Speer 165gr JSP. Im looking for OAL, Powder Charge, etc.

Thanks a bunch!!

[320pf]

Lawfficer-

I just read both of your posts. I also have a olympic arms AR15 upper in 300/221. It shoots most ammo pretty well. I would suggest that you consider getting an adjustable gas block. I found that some of the best loads that I worked up cycled that action a bit too hard.

If you want n=more info on how I installed my adjustable gas block... Let me know and I will send you more info.

I have found that Hodgdon's Lil"Gun is a very good powder for the 300 whisper. It generated the highest velocity and the lowest pressure signs than any of the powders that I have tried.

Just a bit of related info. The 300-221 fireball has a similar powder capacity as the 357 mag. but can run at higher pressures (40,000-45,000 psi for the 357 mag and 52,000 for the 300-221 fireball). So check out the Hodgdon web site for 357 loads and you will get an idea how H110 and Lil"Gun powders compare.

A good source of reloading data for the 300-221 fireball can be had from Sierra. Give them a call and they will send you a pdf file of their reloading data for 110g to 240g bullets.

I have also posted all of my reload data on the following site:

http://reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=135


Also a warning! DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads or powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual! You can/will blow-up your gun. If you do not believe me check this site out:

http://feistyrooster.com/300x221/300...rrelsplit.html

If you want to shoot subsonic loads you will need to use faster pistol powders than H100

I posted this data for subsonic loads a few weeks back under the following thread:

Quarterbore's Forums > 300 Whisper Forums > 300 Whisper Ammo and Reloading > 200 grain Sudsonic Recipes?

These subsonic loads are from the Acurate Arm reloading manual and will not blow-up your gun.

Gun: UR wiseman
Barel length 16"
Primer REM 7 1/2BR
Case REM

Bullet Powder Grains Vel PSI
SRA 165 SPBT AANo.2 5.8 1090 37300
SRA 165 SPBT AANo.5 5.6 1092 19000
SRA 165 SPBT AANo.7 7.0 1097 22600
SRA 165 SPBT AANo.9 7.5 1075 18200

Bullet Powder Grains Vel PSI
SRA 190 HPBT AANo.2 3.2 1087 49200
SRA 190 HPBT AANo.5 5.7 1075 24300
SRA 190 HPBT AANo.7 7.2 1074 30700
SRA 190 HPBT AANo.9 7.5 1060 24300

Bullet Powder Grains Vel PSI
SRA 220 HPBT AANo.2 5.5 889 52600
SRA 220 HPBT AANo.5 6.3 1062 38200
SRA 220 HPBT AANo.7 7.5 1043 44500
SRA 220 HPBT AANo.9 8.2 1056 39500

I have tested this load in my olympic arma AR15 (16 in. barrel)

SRA 180 SPBT GameKing AANo.9 7.5 1034

[Lawfficer]

I read that, but it sounds like he under loaded the gun, then stacked the rounds on top of eachother to do that. I don't think you can soley blame the powder.

I just loaded up a few rounds tonight as "tester" rounds. I loaded the above mentioned Speer JSP 165gr into resized .223 primers, with Hodgdon 110. I looked at loading data and it said a 168gr bullet loaded with 17.2 of Hodgdon 110 produced 1958velocity/1431Energy.

So I loaded Five-17.0, Five-16.8, Five-16.6, Five-16.4, Five-16.2, Five-16.0. I figure, starting with 16.0 and working up, I should be able to get a feel for how the gun likes it. The only problem is OAL.

If you could, can you measue a round of yours for the Over All Length. I can't seem to find a concrete answer on line. Right now I have them just presses in and they are measuring 2.65". Which is just a little shorter than the AR mag they are going in.

[BRM]

They under loaded it to produce sub sonice velocities (much quieter, hence whisper). For super sonic loads, cycling should be no problem. My J&T seems to get too much gas with my adjustable gas block, but that was with it wide open. I still have more experimenting to do to find a super sonic and a sub sonic load that cycles right. For sub sonic I'm going to try AAC-1680 as a powder. I've been using H4227 and it seems to work well for super sonic. Once I find some loads that work well for me, I will post the data.

In addition to brass/primer/powder/bullet variables that I am used to dealing with, the AR platform has a couple more to deal with: gas port position (mine is in the carbine position), Gas port size (they seem to range from .060" to .125"), and gas block type (I have a JP Enterprises adjustable one). Everybody that posts a load in an AR should give us an idea of their setup.

Later,
BRM

[DonT]

Lawfficer,

I looked up my loads for my Model 1 Sales upper. Not sure if these will work for you or not. Use at your own risk as you would anyones data. I have not had an opportunity to put these over a chrony but they are very mild.

My load is:
12.8 of H110
Remington benchrest primer
147gr FMJ (supplier says they are match bullets but ???)
R-P .223 brass or R-P .221 Fireball brass.
Brass Trimmed to 1.335
OAL 2.115 (bullets seated to about 1/2 way thru the cannure)

These have functioned fine in my AR, cycling it with 100% reliability. My rifle did come with an adjustable gas block and I beleive with this load it is pretty much open all the way. There are no high pressure signs and all the bullets exit the barrel

As I mentioned this is for information only use at your own risk.

I know some will notice I am trimming a little short and the OAL is less than you will find posted. My upper apparently has a tight chamber and shallow throat. I used posted trim lengths and OAL. Worked fine in my bolt gun but first one in my AR got jammed before going into battery. If you want a hair raising experience have this happen. Bolt carrier extended into the recoil spring tube so you can't seperate the upper and lower. Using the old pull on the charging handle and rap the butt end of the stock on the loading bench would not dislodge it. It was just a smidgeon short of locking up. I will NOT tell you how I got it into battery but surfice it to say it is NOT something for the faint of heart and I don't want to go over through it again any time soon.

At first I thought the upper had been mistreated or had a problem but it didn't. After going back to the basics I loaded some dummy rounds, should have done this first, after starting with brass shorted more than they needed to be. This improved the situation but still had some occassional sticking where the bolt would not open as it should. Then I started using trimmed brass with no bullets till I got a length that would allow the bolt to close with 100% reliability. Then I loaded some more dummy rounds with the bullet I was using and once again encountered occassonal issues with sticking. I varied the seating depth till I got 100% reliable cycling with no sticking.

So as it turns out I had two issues going on and needed to correct both. I have reloaded for nearly 25 yrs now but never ventured into the custom (wildcat) cartridge world prior to this. I am sure that what I went thru is amature stuff to seasoned wildcatters but after some search I have not been able to find anything that talks about working a round up from this very basic level. I didn't have any of these problems with my bolt gun, which I had before buying the AR upper. But this was a savage action and I headspace it to the sized round I was using and it had a fairly deep throat so that bullets seated to published OAL did not give me an issue.

I know this is little more information than Lawffice asked about loads but thought it might help some others avoid some of the pitfalls I had whether it be a .221/.300 Fireball (.300 whisper) or or a .458 Socom.

Thanks,
DonT

[320pf]

Lawfficer-

The OAL for the 300-221-fireball running in an AR15 is about 2.255 in. They have to be able to fit in the mags... I am certain that an OAL of 2.65" that you listed in your post will not fit in AR mags. If you check the web site:

http://reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=135

All of my loads are listed under the "Not Yet verified user loads". My loads are for the following powders:
winchester 296
H4227
Lil'Gun
H110

I have included the OAL for all of the loads that I posted. The brass that I make from .223 brass, I trim to 1.400 in. The brass that I have that I made from necked up 221-fireball brass is shorter.. 1.366".

One last bit of info. My 300/221 olympic arms AR15 upper has the gas port in the pistol position.


I hope this helps.

320pf

[Scollins]

Originally Posted by 320pf

Also a warning! DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads or powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual! You can/will blow-up your gun. If you do not believe me check this site out:

http://feistyrooster.com/300x221/300...rrelsplit.html

If you want to shoot subsonic loads you will need to use faster pistol powders than H110

Excuse my french, but that is a bunch of crap. The Sierra manual has loads for subsonic 300 Whisper using H110. Yes, that particular individual screwed up his gun. Was it because he used H110 for subsonic loads? Possibly. We actually have no idea why that happened to him. I do know that he wasn't using a 240 grain SMK, which is the specified bullet in the Sierra manual.

I use H110 for subsonic loads using 240 grain SMKs. Funny, when I look at my Sierra pages for the 300 Whisper, it says to use 9.6 grains of H110 for 950 FPS, up to 11.5 grains for 1200 FPS. There are 3 different charge weights for subsonic H110 loads listed. 9.6 for 950, 10.0 for 1000 and 10.4 for 1050. My particular carbine settled on 9.9 grains of H110 for 1005 FPS. It cycles fine (not violently) and ALL my brass lands in a nice little pile 3 feet to my right and 3 feet back.

The powders listed in the Sierra manual for subsonic 240 grains loads are:
AA No 9 (#39 on the burn chart)
2400 (#38 on the burn chart)
Vhit N110 (#41 on the burn chart)
H110 (#43 on the burn chart)
296 (#44 on the burn chart)
Viht N120 (#53 on the burn chart)
AA-1680 (#48 on the burn chart)

Burn chart numbers based pulled from: http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php

Funny, all of those powders are either about as slow as, or slower than, H110. H110 is actually right in the middle, with 3 powders being faster and 3 being slower. The "accuracy load" is shown in the manual as "Viht N110/10.1 grs ; 1100 fps/645ft lbs." Viht N110, is just barely faster than H110.

The Sierra Manual doesn't recommend anything faster than AA #9 until you get to the 135 grain bullets. After that, the fastest powder listed is AA #5 for the 110 grain to 135 grain bullets. A few powders appear on every single bullet weight from 110 grain to 240 grain, H110 being one of them. H110 has subsonic loads listed for 220 grain and 240 grain bullets. It does not have one listed for 200 grain or lower, but then again, neither does any powder in the Sierra manual.

[Cornholio]

I like using Alliant 2400 for my Whisper needs. I have a simple formula that works for me. 9.0grs under a 220gr SMK for subsonic loads, double that (18grs) under a Sierra 110gr JHP for supersonic 2,300-2,400fps loads.

[320pf]

Scollins,

Did you read the recommendation that I posted carefully?

"Also a warning! DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads or powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual!"

I did not say;

"DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads"

I said;

"DO NOT USE H110 for subsonic loads or powder charges less than those listed in the Sierra reloading manual!"

I believe that this is sound advice to give someone new to reloading his own ammo. It is also sound advice for anyone reloading no matter what the experience level.

Finally, the velocities given for loads listed in the Sierra manual are all out of a 10 in. barrel. I have found that I typically get 100 to 200 fps more than the listed velocity from my 16 in. barrel.

320pf

[Lawfficer]

Ok guys thanks....

Im still looking for more imput on OAL, but I guess what it is all going to boild down to getting my upper and spacing it out. Hopefully, the 100rds I have made up will work and are not to short, as I trimmed the brass to 1.355". Good thing .223 brass is cheap and abundant. :)

Thanks for the help... and I just aquired a liter of AA No. 7 to load with too, do if there are any loads for that.... Im all ears... or should I say "eyes"