What conversion makes an ar-15 full auto or illeagl?

[ARCollector]

Geez I dont' know where to begin. Wrangler he could proly do without the smart elick comments. I do have sympathy, becasue I dont' agree with the law, but I do abide by it. Sicilian, you may not be telling us the whole stroy. DId you pop in a drop in auto sear and get caught? If so they will proly throw the book at you. M-16 parts are fine in a gun as long as they do not make the gun fire more than one round with one pull of the trigger as quarterbore said, but if you were caught with a collection of parts that can be readily assembled into a MG then it as just as bad as having the MG according to the latest BATF law. The parts must be under the control of one person. M-16's bolt carriers are used all the time. I have two law enforcment colts that came with m-16 bolt carriers in them. The other parts are common with an ar except for the hammer disconnect sear and fire control group. If you installed all of these, then they may able to make it slam fire and then you are in trouble. If not, then you can't be held responsible. I, as a juror, would have a hard time believing that all those parts would be assembled in there, and if you had a drop in sear, that you were not using it for full auto fire. But that's me. If you wern't caught with the drop in auto sear, and they can't get the gun to slam fire, then you are off the hook. But if you were caught with the sear you are screwed and I hope you can plead it down to a non-felony where you may still enjoy guns. We all need to fight to get the 1986 full auto law repealed but until then, be careful guys!

[lemmethink]

First off, I want to say I am by no means any sort of expert on this subject. I kind of have to side with Ranger Dave that this guy was probably playing around with something he knew he shouldn't have been doing and he got caught. Honestly how does one get caught with an illegal full auto weapon? My guess is that it goes bangbangbangbangbang at the range rather than bang, bang, bang, bang. In a related story, my brother-in-law and I went to a gun store once in Reno. My bro-in-law had an AR15 he was thinking about selling or trading that we took with us and he offered up as trading fodder. The clerk behind the counter took the gun, broke it down into lower and upper, and proceded to freak out. Apparently this gun which my bro had owned for years as is and both of us had fired hundreds of rounds through had some M16 parts. The clerk freaked out, basically said "Oh my god this is a felony right here" proceeded to strip the gun right there on the counter and then said. " I shouldn't even give you these parts back." It had M16 parts.
Right or wrong, that made one hell of an impression on me. Here was a gun that only ever fired once per trigger pull and this guy is freaking out. Given the political nature of the ATF and the fact that they sometimes interpret laws depending on the way the wind blows.....why even think about screwing around and losing your RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS.

[Dano523]

Originally Posted by sicilian0

the reason i ask is i allready made the mistake of putting m16 parts in an ar15 and am being charged with possession of a machine gun. although i did not own or install a gi sear along with the m16 trigger kit into the gun. in my state parts alone are not enough to make the charge stick so that is why i really need to know from someone who has firsthand knowledge of ar's will the gun shoot full auto without the gi sear installed or the m16 bolt. thanx

What to give us the whole story?

[3 weelin geezer]

My guess is someone replied to that ad in SGN about getting an auto sear for cheap. Ya, the one that doesn't even tell you that you have to be representing some police agency and it has to be for said police agency. Somone might think 'hey, why would they sell something that is illegal here?' if it doesnt even have the fineprint that its not for sale to common people. Besides, how can anyone tell what you have in there unless they are a cop (that knows what to look for which most probably dont) and you had it to fire auto all the time unless you modified the selector switch and added an extra hole for the other needed parts. That would definately be a dead giveaway. Then they would come over and ask you for that so called "license" which you don't have since you think you don't have a machine gun to go with it anyways.

[Oldmanpaintball]

Being of someone that has been on both sides of the law in his life. I think we are only getting part of a story. You would have to be doing something wrong to begin with to get a cop to actaully strip down a AR, So lets say, we were driving drunk, cops pulled us over. They "inventory" the car and low and behold there is a AR in the car in the trunk. They turn it into the armorer he inventories it and find said naughty parts.

If I was him I would problably cop a plea, see if they can charge him with a misdemeanor. Assuming he doesnt have a history and he is being charged FEDERALLY he will most likely get a healthy fine, probation and a FELONY.

Now here is where the US DOJ is letting us all down. AS a convicted felon, you can NEVER get your rights back. The DOJ has cut all funding for the re enstatement of felons rights. This when I get all fired up. In my state if when a drug dealer meth head gets arrested, during booking they ask him if he uses drugs...he answers "YES". He then gets to go to "Drug Court" takes 2 years of peeing in a cup and when he is done his RECORD IS CLEAN, NO FELONY. On the other hand, some guy that steals $100000 from a ATM is branded for life.


OMP

Ok I will step off my soapbox.

[Chad G]

New on this board, but not too guns........
I havent seen a selective fire group since the army, even forgot what they look like up close, but it seems to me if the guy did his homework and made the parts work and he has made a FA gun out of semi-auto receiver that isnt/wasnt registered prior to 86 as a FA receiver, or isnt 07/SOT with a LE Demo letter or other required FFL's, he has a 1 way ticket to club fed. I was lead to believe that even possessing M16 trigger parts while you own an semi-auto AR15 or other variant was violation of the law, attempting to construct a MG.

My guess would be as good as 3 weelin geezer......
somebody got that cheap DIAS from SNG and didnt do his homework to see about the legallity of it, before purchase.
I've already been down that road, I saw the ad, did my research, emailed a few dealers and companies that offer FA weapons to LE and Military and stepped away, club fed isnt where I want to go, if Im that desperate to own a FA, I'll just max my credit cards out to the limit and buy one legally.

weigh the differences $15000 for the gun and still have your rights and can make fun of someone whos cell mate is bubba. Oooooor $100000 in fines and you cell mate is Bubba for the next 10 years.

[taylorwso]

Originally Posted by sicilian0

the reason i ask is i allready made the mistake of putting m16 parts in an ar15 and am being charged with possession of a machine gun. although i did not own or install a gi sear along with the m16 trigger kit into the gun. in my state parts alone are not enough to make the charge stick so that is why i really need to know from someone who has firsthand knowledge of ar's will the gun shoot full auto without the gi sear installed or the m16 bolt. thanx

Yes it will "slam fire" FA fire- you are fucked. The state you reside in has nothing to do with federal laws. Take your lube.

[RemMax]

Let Try AgainARRRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok let me try to type this againg Sicilian0
I can't quote the BATFE Rules but here is a pretty close memorey of them, First let me say the Rules on a AR15 are probably the cleasest of any gun out there due to it's popularty over the years
Possesion of a M16 Hammer, Bolt Carrier and either a Drop In Auto Sear or GI Sear IS POSSESION OF A MG
Hammer, Trigger Disconector, Selector+ Machine Gun Add a Carrier still a MG
Possesion of a Lightning Link = POSSESION OF MG!
Short reasoning they give is this as I remember it, The AR15 Bolt Carrier and Hammer together are designed so that if the Disconector fails the Hammer will Jam on the Carrier preventing any chance of Slam Fire, Altering EITHER of these Parts bypasses this safety feature and therfore the Batfe can get it to slam fire unless you have a Firing Pin Rebound Spring such as is used on a 9MM AR and with the primers they use to test It WILL slam fire! No one know's what type test primers they use only that they are extremly sensitive and slam fire extremly easy (Nitro Based???) and by putting either the hammer or the carrier in your gun you insured that the weapon will slam fire at least 2 rounds on 1 of thiee mulitple attemps
Having the Hammer, Carrier and DIAS is Possesion of a MG even if you don't own or posses a AR the same with the Lightning Link.
I personnely own 64 Long Guns, 2 Registered MG'S (Select fire Uzi, and AC556) 6 Registered Suppressor's and 54 Handguns + assorted other ie. tech 9 Mac 12 etc.. and am working on building 6 Bulgy Krink Kits (2 7.62'& 4 5.45's) 2 of these will become pistols 2 rifles with Fake Suppresoors and at least 1 a registered SBR. And While I will be the first to admit that the price of ATF Tax Stamp's is rediculuos, it is cheaper than the alternitive. Even the outlandish cost of the registered MG's is better than the BUBBA routine and cost less cash as well.
In the case of most MG Parts the Hammer is the NO NO the AR is no exception if anything it is worse because they are so clear on that weapon! So while I hate to see a kid lose His RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS for the rest of their life I am afraid that is what you are looking at. Based on the "Combination of Parts" the "You" installed I can't think of any reasonable explanation for havine put those in there! I own about 8 AR15's in different calibers and configurations from a Bolt .50 BMG, .50 Beowulf, 21 Gengis (5.45x39) 7.62x39 9MM .45acpand .223's with 1:14 1:12 1:9 1:8.8 & 1:7 twist I do oc ocasison Install a Used a M16 TRIGGER but I still use a AR15 Disconector as well as all the other AR15 parts, the only reason I use the Triggers is that I was able to find some with enough use to be very smooth and crisp. In your case though I am afraid you are going to pay more for your FA Fun than I have and will have a lot less fun in the proccess! I sugesst you get a good lawyer since I don't beleive they are going to give you a plea option not to mention that the Feds will be filing charges after the state get through filing their's, In short Sicilian0 you are in DEEP %&*$!!!
Good luck and always remeber, The Difference Between The Men And The Boy's Is The Price Of Their TOY'S!!! (if you don't beleive it ask my Wife!)
Oh Yea any AR Lower with a hole above the safety regarless of what the inside looks like is considered a M16 and better be registered before the hole is drilled! Batf states there is NO REASON for a hole to be in that vicinity of the receiver even if it has a Block cast inside of it such as the Colt does.
Well Again, Good Luck, Sleep Light and Hold tight to the Rope and Don't Drop Your Soap!

[Supply-R]

IDIOT. I am new here, but I do have friends here in Califorina. And the law is very gray. If you have ANY M-16 parts or if ANY part of your AR has a drill mark or a File mark on the lower receiver, It is taken away for inspiction. Then you must file a case to try to get your AR back. However, In other parts of the state, They don't care if you have M-16 parts, UNLESS you brag about it and someone reports you. Then you can be raided or contacked. Again, Its up to the County or City what they want to do.

So, If you want to be clean, Keep a true AR-15, Register it with your local Police, and Don't tell everyone what you have.

[Supply-R]

Opps... forgot something. If you own an Autosear (Drop-in or otherwise), You have a Machinegun. Even if you don't have ANY firearms at all.

This part of the law is clear.... If you have an autosear, you have a machinegun.