Five variations of the Gen 4 Pat Pending M9

[Misfit-45]

Hi Folks,
This is my first post on this forum. Just need to see if anyone is watching.
There are five variations of the Gen 4 Phrobis M9 bayonet that I have identified. If anyone is interested, I'll give pictures and descriptions. Thanks
Marv

[porterkids]

Hi Marv,

I've seen you on other forums, welcome to Quarterbore, THE place for M9 collectors. Of course people are watching and we'd love to see what you have. SignalSoldier, another member of this forum and a prolific M9 seller, has also identified several variations. Have you seen his classifications?

[SignalSoldier]

The Phrobis variations are most obvious in Gen 4's. Most variations are font alignment; however, someone along the line mistakingly used Zero and Alpha letter O in the spelling of Phrobis on the ricasso. The zero is flat sided. The O is round. Interesting oversight.

Marv is a real detail kind of guy...a skill that a good collector must have in his arsenal of professional tools.

Semper Fi,
SignalSoldier

[Carlo]

So Marv,

[Misfit-45]

It's great to be here folks.
Maybe most of you already know of the M9 Pat Pending variations. The book American Gladius started the Gen 1-4 idea, but when the author discovered another font variation in the Pat Pending (gen 4) M9, he called it gen 5. That was not a good idea since the previous generations were in chronological order. The Pat Pending, gen 4 variations have not been categorized as to which variation came first. Who would know at this point in time which should be gen 5,6,7,8 etc.? We as collectors needed a method for identifying the differences.
The method (as far as I know, sorry if I'm wrong) comes from NumberOneGi, Howard. It involves the alignment of the letters in PHROBIS, and the letters in USA, (or in one case U in USA lines up with the T in PAT.) The second identifying feature is the type font of the "O" in "PHROBIS. There is a "flat-sided O", and an "OVAL O". The third identifying feature is whether the USA is a wide font or narrow font.

So, here it goes.

This is the U/T variation where the U and T line up and it has a flat side O and wide USA. The notation is, U/T, flat side O, wide USA



The second variation is a I/A, Oval O, Narrow font USA



The third variation is B/S, oval O with wide USA. With this variation, it looks like the U and T are also lined up. Unlike the UT variation above, this variation has the B and S lined up. I suppose you could call it U/T,B/S, oval O, with wide USA.



The fourth variation is the B/S, oval O, Narrow font USA



The fifth variation is B/S, flat side O, wide font USA



The method is not perfect, but it's effective.

Hope that helps in identifying the Gen 4 M9s. Note, I have not found a U/T with an Oval O.

Marv

[porterkids]

Thanks for the photos Marv. For the record, American Gladius didn't start or develop anything. The author of that book took most of his information from this website and whatever else he could gleen from the Internet. The book lacks important information and photos even though the author was offered assistance. Other things are flat out incorrect. What could have been a great book turned out, in my opinion, to be a major disappointment. Unless you collect P38 can openers.

[Carlo]

Thanks for the pictures and the description

[Mister Moon]

For starters I bet there are at least a hundred guys out there that know much more about the 188 than I do. I’ve just never really sat down and done the indebt research on this model. I will say that looking at the stamp variations always drives me crazy.

I was able to locate an old 188 blue print from 1987 that mentions a change in the size of the M9 part of the stamp. This print also mentions that the drawing itself was redrawn on 5/26/87 to add PAT. PEND. To the stamp.

The last thing I see on the print is a change in the dimension between U.S.A. and PAT. PEND. It went from .031 to .060.

The thing we cant assume is that there are blades out there stamped both ways. Sometimes changes were made and communicated to the stamp maker before stamps were made.

Also, we cant assume that the first knives stamped PAT. PEND. were done in 5/87 just because that’s when the print was changed. It is possible that the change was done well before or well after this date.

I have not been able to find a print that calls out the font type. My gut tells me the 0 vs. O variation was a random thing at the stamp maker. I seriously doubt it was actually called out on a print.

So you see, this is why looking at stamp variations makes me knuts! ;-)



Take care, Amazing Mister Moon !

*

Joe Houser

Director of Customer Relations

Buck Collectors Club Liaison

Company Historian

*



*

[Misfit-45]

First of all, I accept the fact that I gave American Gladius more credit than it deserved. The correct way to have phrased my statement is, the first time I encountered the Generation numbering i.e. Gen 1-4 was in the book American Gladius, not that the author started or invented it.
I also agree that the timing of when the Pat. Pending stamp was actually used on the M9 is still a mystery. Thanks for the info. Whether or not these variations are "blue print" changes or simple cases of casual changes of convenience, they non-the-less represent a legitimate and interesting area of collecting of this great bayonet.
Marv

[Menno]

Thanks very much for the photo's and descriptions.
I am also a Phrobis M9 collector and bought several new/perfect condition knifes from NumberOneGI (Howard).

I did not know about the fifth version of the 4th generation. Seems another one to collect for me :)

Best regards,
Menno
The Netherlands