What types of military production Ontario M-9's exist?

[Menno]

Hello everybody,

I am new to this great and very informative forum (although I have read a lot of it already as a guest) and also fairly new to collecting M9 bayonets!
I live in The Netherlands and getting my hands on nice/mint and rare bayonets for my growing collection is proving difficult.

I have decided to start simple (or so I thought ). I would like to collect one of each of all military types of produced Ontario M9's.
This has proven more difficult than I imagined because information about manufactured numbers and types is difficult to obtain.

So far I own a commercially sold Ontario 6143, thats the all black one with the new handle. I don't count this as part of my collection because, as far as I can find out, it has never been issued to the U.S. Military in black and because I bought it through commercial channels.

I also own a Ontario M9 in OD with the new type handle. This one was completely sealed in the original packaging and is apparantly one of 20000 of the 2005 contract (W52H09-05-C-0265), more specifically one of 5500 of the fourth and last delivery (04/06). This already has the M9 marking instead of M-9.

Lastly I own a mint Ontario M9 in the original forest green color. It is marked M-9 and so on. It seems this is one of 12500 from the 29 Sept. 1999 contract (DAAE20-99-D-0135).

However, now I am stuck. I ran out of places to search for information and so I am turning to you for help.
My question is, are there more military issued versions than the two I own? I know there are probably OD colored versions with the old type handle, maybe even ones marked M-9 and M9? I saw one in the photo section of this forum, is that a military issued version?
Are there forest green versions marked M9. I highly doubt it because as far as I know the forrest green ones were all of the 1999 contract.

Also, are there more M9 contract Ontario has had besides the 1999, 2005 and 2006 contracts. I read somewhere that there may have been a small contract (in the hundreds) in 2003?

And lastly, were all 12500 Ontario produced M9's of the 1999 contract delivered in forest green or have they been partly delivered in OD color? I would think so, because of the (probable) existance of the military issued OD versions with old type handles...

Thanks very much in advance for helping me along!

Regards,
Menno
The Netherlands

P.S. I will try to add some photographs to this topic soon!

[pwcosol]

Menno: For a novice collector, you certainly have done your research on the MPBS M9 as produced by Ontario. I have collected the M9 for six years and didn't know what you do about Ontario's production! One question I might ask is why concentrate so much attention on Ontario M9s, when there were many more variants produced by both Phrobis/Buck & LanCay?
However, regarding Ontario's production, you seem to be looking primarily @ bayonets which were contracted for by the US Army (or exact civilian equivalent). Because of the time between the 1999 contract of 12,500 & 2005 contract, I would expect those 1999 bayonets were completed well ahead of scheduled delivery. Therefor, they likely all bore the same grips, markings, and finish. Ontario would know the number of fittings they required to complete the contract, so would have had the components slated for manufacture in entirety early on.
So far as the M9s with black fittings, you might want to look @ the U S Government's Defense Reutilization website:
http://www.govliquidation.com/index.html
You can search for "Bayonet" or use the "FSC" number assigned to them. Recently I have seen black M9s made by Ontario appear as surplus turned in for disposition. This does not necessarily mean the bayonets came from the military, but perhaps other Federal agencies (DEA, Customs, etc.) whom might have purchased them. One would have to see the surrender tag or paperwork to find out where they originated from. In addition, the US military has much more latitude in securing small quantities of equipment for special ops or needs, using a government "P-Card" (Purchasing). If a small unit might require a special knife, or other piece of equipment, with authorization they can acquire this right from commercial/civilian channels. The possibility exists that bayonets might enter the system thru this method rather than part of a large contract from a specific manufacturer.

[Menno]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply and information.
To answer your first question. When I started getting interested in the M9 bayonet, I did a lot of research on the types available and got really overwhelmed by the many different manufacturers, types and sub-types. There are sooooo many....
So when the decision was made to start collecting, if wanted to set myself a reasonable goal for a start. I decided to focus on Ontario first because the number of different types produced seemed manageble. Also I am a University student, so I dont have a lot of money to spare.
Also remember that I live in The Netherlands. It is difficult from here to find places on the internet in the U.S. that sell and ship to Europe. So starting with more recent production M9's seems a good idea.
(Any tips are much appreciated by the way! )
Ebay of course is a good start, but other than that it is very difficult to find shops that actually show the type they actually sell. This is usually new commercial stuff anyway. Second hand M9's are more difficult to find for me, because it is a little difficult for me to personally go to a surplus store or collectors meeting in the U.S. as you can imagine

As far as I know the 12500 1999 contract was fully delivered by 2000, so your remark makes alot of sense. However I read somewhere that the Army favored the OD color instead of the forest green, so could it be possible that Ontario changed the color halfway through the contract?! I just don't know...

Thanks for the website. I think I have seen it already, but I will pay more attention to it in the future. It seems a good place to learn about government issued types of M9's

Regards,
Menno
The Netherlands

[Menno]

Wow, govliquidation currently has some very nice looking Phrobis III's in auction. Some seem to be in their original sealed packaging with their manual.

To bad it looks difficult to get them from The Netherlands as they don't seem to accept Paypal. I don't even know if you can bid from outside the U.S?

Well, it seems another late night of Ebay for me

[pwcosol]

Menno:

Here are a few other links involving M9 bayonets coming from the US DRMS you might find interesting:
http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3441

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3340

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5065

Regarding the Ontario examples, I know forum member 'Numberonegi" (also his handle on Ebay) has acquired some of these in black from the DRMS auction. He might be able to provide you some specifics about these M9s.

[Menno]

Hi,

Thanks again for the information!
I will read it later today, when I have more time.

I know Numberonegi, I bought the forest green Ontario from him and are expecting it at any moment!
I remember he had a black Ontario with the old style handle listed, advertised as USGI issued. I passed it by that time, but it seemes like a good idea to contact him, because he apparently sees a lot of M9's coming by!

Kind regards,
Menno
The Netherlands

[Carlo]

Hello Menno and welcome to the forums!
I found saved in my pc a small letter by Homer Brett about the Ontario M9.
I'm attaching it.

[Menno]

Hi Carlo,

Thank you very much for your words of welcome and especially the attached letter. This is just what I was looking for. So it seems the lime (forest green) bayonets have been produced much longer than I though. As the letter states, there should also be lime versions with M9 instead of M-9... interesting!

I am however a little confused by the term 'pattern' and 'product improved pattern'. Does Mr. Brett refer to the pattern of the grooves in the handle or something else? I didn't know there were differences aside from the obvious old (straight) and new (oval) types.

Furthermore. How do the OD color Ontario's with the old style handle fit into this story? It seems from the letter that the lime green M9's were produced up and until the new style handle in OD was introduced around 2005.

Kind regard,
Menno

[Carlo]

Originally Posted by Menno

Hi Carlo,

Thank you very much for your words of welcome and especially the attached letter. This is just what I was looking for. So it seems the lime (forest green) bayonets have been produced much longer than I though. As the letter states, there should also be lime versions with M9 instead of M-9... interesting!

I am however a little confused by the term 'pattern' and 'product improved pattern'. Does Mr. Brett refer to the pattern of the grooves in the handle or something else? I didn't know there were differences aside from the obvious old (straight) and new (oval) types.

Furthermore. How do the OD color Ontario's with the old style handle fit into this story? It seems from the letter that the lime green M9's were produced up and until the new style handle in OD was introduced around 2005.

Kind regard,
Menno

I think that with the word "pattern" Brett was referring to a new camouflage color of both the bayonet handle and scabbard.
Sorry but I don't know much about the Ontario M9, so will need to research a little more.
By the way, I recently found that Ontario was awarded and additional contract in 2006.
Take a look at this topic
http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/sh...8843#post28843

[Menno]

Very true. I mentioned the 2006 contract briefly in my first post in this thread.
The contract number is: W52H09-06-D-0068
It is a contract for the indefinite future. I already downloaded the contracts from the thread for my library

I know of at least 4 deliveries made since the contract was signed in 2006.

- W52H09-06-D-0068/0001
Unknown quantity delivered 02/07


- W52H09-06-D-0068/0002
Unknown quantity delivered 04/07


- W52H09-06-D-0068/????
16000 units delivered 01/08
Source: NSN procurement history information from govliq website.

- W52H09-06-D-0068/????
58513 units delivered 02/08
Source: NSN procurement history information from govliq website.

All these 2006 contract M9's are OD color with the new type handle (same as the 2005 contract). They are identical to the commercial Ontario 6220.

Kind regards,
Menno