300 Aac Blackout (300blk)

[Colorado Osprey]

Originally Posted by sha-ul

it sure looks like a 300W, but without comparing mechanical drawings, it is hard to tell

Not without signing a non disclosure:

Copied from oa2.org
http://www.oa2.org/forums/viewtopic....304&highlight=

"I received an email from a principal at AAC just the other day "announcing" this "new" cartridge. In his initial email he went out of his way to tout the platitudes of this "new" round, and really make it look like something new and better than what we had ever seen before. The main crux of his email was this:

He knows that Olympic manufactures 300 Fireball barrels and that we have had great success over the years with them. This "new" cartridge of which this gentlemen represented himself to be the "project lead" in its development, was so close to what we make that he said, "Your chamber is probably already within the spec", but that he recommended we go to HIS reamers, and "recommend you change the name on your barrels to 300 AAC BLACKOUT. People will be asking you for it soon enough." I informed him that they already do ask for it, and that Oly calls it the 300 Fireball, and that we have been manufacturing it for almost 30 years.

After several email exchanges, he wanted me to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement just to see a print of the cartridge. I was a bit thrown off by this, not wanting to get involved with or support an organization, project or individual that wants to push a new branding as an exclusive or otherwise fantastically new development, when it is little more than a rebranding that others have used and made famous over the last 30 years. Remember: JD Jones and all his wondrous rampages about anyone who made a 330/221 Fireball after he branded the name "300 Whisper"? Anyway, the whole NDA thing caused me to make some calls. After 17 years at one company and nearly 25 in the industry, I am not without contacts and resources of my own. In about 30 minutes I confirmed that the cartridge, although submitted IS NOT SAAMI approved as of yet. this was given to me as the reason for the NDA request. Hmmm... But I also received confirmation from a couple of inside industry sources that the chambering is almost identical to what Oly and others have been using for the 300 Fireball/Whisper® all along.

Specifically, I was told, "the headspace is exactly the same as 221 Fireball, the chamber is exactly the same as the 221 Fireball except the neck is .337 tapering to .335. The max case length is 1.368", chamber is 1.378 to where the case mouth would be. Throat is .309 for about .18 then it's a 1.5 degree into the bore."

Anyway the good news is they are advertising a partnership with Remington. Near as I can tell the partnership really seems more like a seller/client relationship with AAC being the buyer of ammo from Remington. In one of his letters he states that there are 5 Million rounds on order. Looking forward to testing some.

While I anticipate fully that the marketing will continue with the re-branding of the 300 Fireball as the 300 AAC Blackout as the next greatest cartridge to hit the AR, we all know it is not. Something that a theology professor taught me about scripture and doctrine sort of applies here: If it is new, it is not a revelation. If it is a revelation, it is not new". Same principal pretty much applies to the AR after 50 years of tinkering. Yes, there will be some exceptions, most notably the WSSM conversions, but for the most part that adage holds true.

The best news of this, is if it all goes through as projected, is that the ammo will be commercially loaded and available in case lots, that will totally reinvigorate the cartridge, and in the end, in spite of any negatives in the process, I'm all for it.

It will always be a 300 Fireball to me."

[robpiat]

Originally Posted by Colorado Osprey

Not without signing a non disclosure:

Copied from oa2.org
http://www.oa2.org/forums/viewtopic....304&highlight=

After 17 years at one company and nearly 25 in the industry, I am not without contacts and resources of my own. In about 30 minutes I confirmed that the cartridge, although submitted IS NOT SAAMI approved as of yet. this was given to me as the reason for the NDA request. Hmmm... But I also received confirmation from a couple of inside industry sources that the chambering is almost identical to what Oly and others have been using for the 300 Fireball/Whisper® all along.

You'd think he would have put it together that AAC is a subsidiary of Remington.

[sha-ul]

I wonder if his chambers are a no-turn neck

[Expatriot]

• Hornady 110 V-Max, OAL: 2.000
• 110 TSX, 2.015 OAL
• Sierra 155 Palma, 2.150 OAL
• Sierra 220, 2.089 OAL
• Lapua B416 200 grain, 1.960 OAL
• Hornady 150 FMJ-BT 3037, 2.065 OAL
• Nosler Ballistic Tip 125 grain, OAL: 2.085
• Remington AccuTip 125 grain, OAL: 2.085
• Hornady 130 SP #3020, OAL: 2.010
• Sierra H2120 125 ProHunter, OAL: 1.950
• Speer TNT 125 1986, OAL: 2.010

I looked into these OAL's and while I think there is some merit here, this is not without controversy. These OAL's are VERY short for most bullets. While this may help them feed through an AR15 magazine more reliably they leave quite a large jump to the lands.

In my 300-221 chamber most bullets would be left with a .130" to .220" jump to the lands. That is an awfully long way for a bullet to travel before encountering rifling which is likely to impact on accuracy.

Also keep in mind that seating bullets this deep is going to change the pressure and velocity in your current load.

I will leave final decision on this till I have a chance to actually try it.

It will always be a 300 Fireball to me.

+1

PS how does everyone on this board like knowing that the certain person who "developed" the "new" round spent time trolling this board for info like case lengths, bullet choices, powder selection and loads? Then low and behold commercial ammo of nearly the same type shows up and someone else is making money from your ideas and work.

[Hoser]

I think this is a good thing for the industry.

If JDJ had not played I have a secret for so long, the Whisper would have been standardized long ago.

The more people using the 300 Blackout / 300 Whisper the better.

Who knows, we might see some factory R-700s coming out. And a registered SBR out of the factory isnt a bad thing. No need to engrave it.

I am looking forward to seeing it out there.

[robpiat]

Originally Posted by Hoser

I think this is a good thing for the industry.

If JDJ had not played I have a secret for so long, the Whisper would have been standardized long ago.

The more people using the 300 Blackout / 300 Whisper the better.

Who knows, we might see some factory R-700s coming out. And a registered SBR out of the factory isnt a bad thing. No need to engrave it.

I am looking forward to seeing it out there.

+1 . At some point He decided that he would rather have 100% of a small niche than 10-15% of a big pie. My guess is that JDJ had been approached a few times by manufacturers and was too high on licensing cost.

[BWE Firearms]

I posted this question on AAC Silencertalk.com to out what they did and was told the 9" barrel uses the pistol position and everything else uses the carbine position with non adjustable gas blocks. I'm sorry but you cant use the full potensial of the 300 Whisper\Fireball\Backout\whatever you want to call it today without an adjustable gas block and a pistol poision. I'm glad they are doing this so the Whisper and suppressors will finally be in the mainstream, but to say it's something compleatly different when its the some thing pisses me off.

[Alleycat]

There are a few issues with this development. The first thing deals with the Whispers semi wildcat states. For years the 300 Whisper has been our baby. Every one that owns one takes pride in running a cartridge that the average to the semi advanced shooter does not understand. The 300 BLK will put the Whisper in the hands of the masses. It's good for the cartridge and good for the uninformed shooters out there. It begs for a suppressor and every one that gets a 300 BLK will probably learn that suppressors are legal, which will increase sales. That's good for all of us. ACC did the same thing as all the other manufacturers out there with a Whisper clone. 300 Fireball, 300-221, 300 whatever. ACC just pushed the envelope farther and ruffled a few feathers along the way. The last thing is the banning of Devil Doc on ST. There are a lot of people pissed off about someone getting banned for telling rsilvers that he should not use an unproven gun as his carry gun. I am one of those people. It's his house and he makes the rules. I think some are using this as an excuse to bash AAC and rsilvers. I think a simple thanks for the help and info would go a long way.

[320pf]

I have also researched this round and had a chance to get the skinny on the chamber specs... It is basically the 300-221 Fireball and will most likely shoot in a 300-221 Fireball chamber. BUT, not all 300-221 Fireball chambers are the same. If your chamber will not shoot the Blackout you probably will be able to touch it up with a Blackout reamer and be good to go.

As some of you may well know, I have put a few 300-221 Fireball rounds downrange (~10000) and even built a few (about eight or so). I think that going with a carbine length gas system in the 16-inch barrel pretty much optimizes the 16-inch barrel for super sonic loads. That is not to say that it will not shoot subsonic loads but it will not be as flexible with bullet weights and powder types in the subsonic mode as a gun set up with a pistol length position.


Non the less, I hope that this cartridge is successful.

320pf

Originally Posted by Expatriot

I looked into these OAL's and while I think there is some merit here, this is not without controversy. These OAL's are VERY short for most bullets. While this may help them feed through an AR15 magazine more reliably they leave quite a large jump to the lands.

In my 300-221 chamber most bullets would be left with a .130" to .220" jump to the lands. That is an awfully long way for a bullet to travel before encountering rifling which is likely to impact on accuracy.

Also keep in mind that seating bullets this deep is going to change the pressure and velocity in your current load.

I will leave final decision on this till I have a chance to actually try it.



+1

PS how does everyone on this board like knowing that the certain person who "developed" the "new" round spent time trolling this board for info like case lengths, bullet choices, powder selection and loads? Then low and behold commercial ammo of nearly the same type shows up and someone else is making money from your ideas and work.

[jasonusvi]

Originally Posted by 320pf

... I think that going with a carbine length gas system in the 16-inch barrel pretty much optimizes the 16-inch barrel for super sonic loads...

320pf

Makes some sense as the person getting the 9" is NFA aware and will more likely be shooting subsonic with a can. The less informed masses buying the 16" are more likely to be buying this as a supersonic hunting option.

I am new to this cartridge but given its powder efficiency do you get meaningful velocity gain out of longer barrels?