500 Linebaugh SubSonic ??

[Wicked]

I have some suppressed .50 caliber questions and found out about this forum from some members who also belong to silencertalk.com. I am Wicked over there as well. I've been cruising around here for a few days and have picked up a good bit of info that I had questions about. Still, some things are unanswered, so I'll ask.

Background info: I live in Ohio and deer hunt with a 15" Encore pistol in 500 S&W Magnum. Unfortunately, there's no rifles for deer hunting here and no hunting at all with suppressors. I build my own Form 1 suppressors even though I can't hunt with them. Anyhow, I got to thinking about how much I like the 500 Smith and what would be the next logical steps in bigger & better? Even if I didn't use it for hunting here. Answer - .510" diameter, 750gr Hornady A-Max bullets. Here are my proposed requirements for the use of this bullet.

1.) Velocity - exclusively subsonic for use with suppressor
2.) Platform - bolt action rifle. Encore might do.
3.) Effective range - 100 to 300yds
4.) Use - range toy on steel mostly, options to hunt with it very distant 2nd.
5.) Price tag - $1000 not to include optics/mounts/dies/ect.

Here are some of the potential cartridge options I've researched :
50-70 Govt. - Rimmed, Encore only. Too much case?
50 Alaskan - Rimmed, Encore only. Too much case?
500 Linebaugh - Rimmed, Encore only. Case capacity about right.
.510/.458 SOCOM - AR platform
500 Whisper & clones - AR platform, brass is expensive
500 S&W & 50 AE - Wrong bore diameter

What others am I missing? I don't think most of these will work well in a bolt gun because of the case rim. Thought about a Siamese Mauser but the mag well is too short. What if I made it a single shot bolt? Any good options with WSM or other fat cases? Would a Magnum length action be required? I'd prefer not to have full custom chamber/die reamers made if possible.

The best/easiest/cheapest option I see at this point is to long chamber an Encore barrel in 500 Linebaugh. Thing is, I've been able to find NOTHING online about anyone doing this. Can't seem to find the reamers either. There must be a reason/s I've missed. Has something like this already been done? Pros/Cons? Any help, advice or your thoughts would be appreciated.

Pete

[redtazdog]

The 50 Alaskan works good for sub loads as the case size is
almost the same as the 510 whisper.
.
690grn 50AK, 500grn AK, 690grn 510 Whisper, 22-250, 44mag

.
50AK and 510 Whisper

[Alleycat]

http://www.bfgcartridges.com/

Just don't hunt with it

[Wicked]

Red,

Yea, I've seen your pics on silencertalk. They were one of the inspirational things that got me thinking about this project. Do you think the Alaskan case could be shortened any further? How is the recoil in the T/C?



Alleycat,

Thanks. I've previously looked at that site. He's a member here I think, Fireball168? I was hoping he, Spook and Kurtz among others would chime in here. They've all done similar work I think could help my cause.

[HUNTER2]

Not really bad, but noticable! Shoot a 50-70-750 in tc encore, 20" bbl. Had a Venturi compensator installed with guarantee 0 muzzle rise. It made it a lot better. Wish I had made the plundge and got a can for it.

[rumlover]

Some thoughts:

Make sure that whatever caliber you choose that the chamber is cut for the longer, low drag bullets you are wanting with a fast enough twist rate.

Even with a brake, the 50 AK kicks like a mule in an encore setup. I shoot big bores all the time for long range, but a 750 AMax in a 6lb gun will bruise your shoulder after a few rounds. Add a can and it will take it to 12 ga 3 1/2" recoil levels.

The 50 AK brass is much cheaper than the 510 whisper, and available from starline. I suggest comparing the costs of the other calibers you mentioned.

The 50 AK brass lasts a long time. I think I'm on my 9th or 10th reload of the first 20 cases from the 100 I bought from midway.

Use heavy enough threads for the can.

Take a look at some of the commercial offerings. I had Elite Iron build both my barrel and can, roughly 700 each if I remember correctly.

In the encore frame with a can on, the rifle is very front heavy. If I had the tools to do the work, I'd select a bolt action frame with a heavy fill McM stock. Then install a mercury recoil reducer in the butt, overlaid with a good recoil pad. I like the limbsaver pads on my duck guns, and they would probably work well here too. The barrel channel can be milled/sanded to desired free-float fit. I'm not sure if there is a mag system that will handle the 50 AK with 600+gr BMG pills, but that would be quite awesome if you could find one and modify it.

If you want to keep cost down, go with the encore set up. If you want comfort with a little more weight, go bolt action.

On bullets:

While I took the rifle out a few times to the farm, I never got the opportunity to drop anything with it. So out of curiosity on what a 750 AMAX at 1050 fps would do, I built some thick clay mud boxes with a target in the front so I could both compare groups and penetration (at $4 per shot, look for any efficiencies you can). At 100, I was getting 1 1/2" groups with the encore. Considering a 1/2" pill that kicked like a mule, I was most satisfied. For penetration, it was easily going through the 30" of thick, wet, compacted clay with only a little deformation at the tip. I pulled 4 out of the backstop and they all looked similar. I couldn't tell if they had tumbled like the 30 cal SMK's do, but if they did it would be a huge exit wound.

I'd recommend also trying some pulled 690gr mil fodder since you can get them much cheaper.

[Wicked]

Thank you. THAT was exactly the kind of info I was looking to find. It confirms a lot of what I was thinking. Do you think the 50 AK case could be shortened any? That's all the Linebaugh series is, shorter 50 AK cases. I am guessing there is excess capacity with the 50AK. The case length is approx. 2.1" and the 500 Linebaugh Long is 1.6" and 500 Lindbaugh is 1.4" I do not expect to shoot supersonic at all.

I handload 385gr. bullets for the 500 S&W and at 1400 fps and the recoil isn't all that bad even in a pistol. I was thinking that a bullet of double the weight, even at a lower velocity may have a bunch more recoil. That's why I was thinking about at a bolt action. I now believe I will definitely try and make this build on a bolt action and see if I can get it to feed from a mag. Guess I could always make it a single shot bolt gun. I'm thinking a Savage center-feed Long Action would be the ticket. Pre-threaded barrels make assembly real easy.

Has anyone tried turning the rim down and then cutting an extractor groove in the 50 AK cases to get them to work in a bolt action?

[rumlover]

I don't know if shortening it would be necessary. I'm using 34gr of RE7 and it fills the case fairly well. With such large bullets, I don't think I'd try using faster burning powders in the 50AK. The pressure spike necessary to push a 750 AMAX to 1050 might be well over SAMMI specs. The linebaugh would probably work, just check on brass availability and I'd suggest running the loads through quickload to see what pressures you get. Ideally, you want the smallest charge possible with a safe pressure spike. The less the powder, the less expanding gas/heat the can has to eat, the quieter the report.

The 50AK sounds like my wifes honda civic door closing with the can. You'd notice it, but probably wouldn't recognize what it was if you were within 100 yards.

Also, use stainless steel if you can get it. You can lower the report a few dB by using water in the can. SS is necessary to control the corossion. I suggest a SS barrel as well. a 750 AMAX has a lot of surface area to rub down the lands. With such a specialized toy, you want the longest life possible.

[Archangel]

I would stick with a 50 Alaskan with a 50 BMG throat.... and a 1-10 twist barrel..
As for a rifle, Ruger Number 1 or 3.......
McGowan Barrels can do it all...... and pretty cheap too...
My Ruger No3 50 Alaskan BMG throated has a 15 inch barrel, gets me on average 5 shot 1.5 inch groups... And if i can get a photo too upload i will post a pic of it...

[Wicked]

I completely agree on using stainless steel. The extra cost on the barrel is usually about 25-50 dollars and I think it's definitely worth it.

I build my cans from 316 SS and 17-4 SS but have not tried using them wet as I run them on 5.56. I think with the lower sub-sonic pressure, wet would definitely help. Have you ever tried using wire pulling gel (like electricians use)? I have read that works great too.

Yea, I really like the Ruger action but I can't get it separately and the guns are kind of expensive. Do they still sell the #3?