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  #1  
Old 12-21-2009, 08:06 PM
Boom Stick Boom Stick is offline
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Are these numbers even possible?

Are the velocity numbers listed in the article below even remotely possible even with longer barrel lengths? This whole article just seems to be blowing smoke in an arse-like direction.

http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/suppress/whisper.htm

"The 300 Whisper

The 300,.338 & .510 are the most common JDJ Whisper calibres, but in particular the 300 Whisper deserves attention because of its dual role as a subsonic & supersonic round. Eitherload can be used out of the same rifle without compromising the other. "The 300 Whisper was the first of the series & contrary to what you may & contrary to what you may have read, the cartridge was designed as a multi-purpose cartridge from the beginning", - says JD Jones, the inventor of the Whisper series. While JD Jones' company is a Class 2 or military manufacturer, its proprietor is also an avid hunter who has travelled widely, taking a variety of game with the 300 Whisper- & this with handguns! His preferences are T/C Contender or Encore based single shot pistols. However, due to their short barrel, JD's 12 or 14 inch "hand cannons" may not reveal the full potential of the .300 Whisper.

To compare its sonic preformance with the 7.62 x 39 Russian (as described in books & on internet sites) is a gross understatement, if not simply wrong. Even if not loaded to max, it is better to compare the 300 Whisper supersonic with the .300 Savage or 30/30 Win. The maximium velocities with 125 grain projectiles reaches 2870 fps, 2600 fps with the heavier 150 grain projectiles. More moderate loads in the 2400-2600 fps area & the corresponding energy still make this an excellent deer cartridge out to 250 yards. All this with a very mild (.223 like) recoil. low noise & excellent accuracy - Typically around 1/2 MOA or 0.5 at 100 yards. Even without looking at the subsonic suppressed loads, this combination & preformance makes the .300 Whisper an ideal lady-hunter or youngster's deer rifle - or anybody put off by heavy recoil & the noise level for that matter. By all means it is a better choise than the marginal .223 many of us shot our first deer with! Although the suppressor removes the muzzle blast it is obvious that any supersonic projectile creates a ballistic crack, but this wouldn't be louder than .22 Magnum Rimfire. As the .300 Whisper is based on the .221 Fireball it has the same case head dimensions as the .222 or .223 cartridge & will fit - once rebarrelled & converted to a .300 Whisper - into most lifgt .222/.223 rifle & magazines. The payload for the subsonic .300 Whisper ammunition is preferably in the 240-250 grain weight. Using anything under 220 grains is a waste of time as both energy & "yawing" effect diminish quickly with lighter projectiles. Considering the approximately 1040fps bullet speed needed for subsonic load only the projectile's weight can create sufficient energy. The "yawing" refers to the tumbling of these long 240 & 250 grain projectiles immediately after impact - a major part of the Whisper concept, disreguarded or misunderstood by many. While they are stable in flight, even a cardboard target clearly shows the tendency of these bullets to tumble on impact, thus creating wounds far in excess of their "paper" ballistics. It is futile to look for the magic bullet that expands or mushrooms at subsonic speed - such a thing in a .30 cal sectional density doesn't exist, nor will experiments with cast lead projectiles lead to greatly improved result. However, a hard & solid 240 grain Sierra Matchking turning over lengthwise is equivalent to a seven times calibre expansion! These high ballistic coefficient projectiles retain energy as well as sub MOE accuracy out to 200 yards & more. While the bullet leaves the muzzle at 1040 fps, at 100 yards it loses only 3%, travelling at 1011fps & at 200 yards it still keeps on motoring with a solid 984fps. As velocity is retained, so is the energy; muzzle 576 ft/ibls, 100 yards 544 ft/lbs & 200 yards 517 ft/lbs. Only beyond 250 yards does the energy start to drop below the 500 ft/lbs mark. Comparing this to your standard 9mm or 45ACP pistol Marlin Camp Carbine cartridges, the first one only makes around 230 ft/lbs while the latter 300ft/lbs at 100 yard line. It is no wonder that some military units previously using these pistol calibres in semi-autos or sub-machine guns have switched to the .300 Whisper. while other common military rounds like the .308 or .223 show either over or under penetration, the .300 Whisper accomplishes the job silently & effortlessly. Special purpose projectiles ammunition, so called "helmet punchers" successfully penetrate automobile bodies, a task where almost anything short of a .50 BMG will have the occasional failure."
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2009, 09:31 PM
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Colohunter Colohunter is offline
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Those numbers seem pretty high. I started seeing too much pressure at around 2200 fps in my 16" M1S upper, but some of that is their design. I have a hard time believing that I am 600fps slower than someone else can get.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:38 PM
mstarling mstarling is offline
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Boomie,

Am kinda new at this myself, but the supersonic numbers seem high to me. I am expecting more like 2200 with a 125 NBT from a 16" bbl. Which is adequate for whitetails. Will probably try them on piggies too.

The accuracy numbers I am just getting to a little bit. I've seen 3/4" groups with 147 gr FMJBT ball projectiles ... which isn't bad from junk and no tuning of the load at all.

All chamberings seem to have a little drivel associated with them ... with the possible exception of Jeffe's AR stuff that you can simply load to your recoil tolerance

Mike
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:25 PM
snipecatcher snipecatcher is offline
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If I cram the case full of VVN110 and pack it down with the bullet, I can get a 240 gr. bullet moving to ~2200 fps in an 18" barrel. I'm not believing 2600, regardless of barrel length. I just don't think there's enough powder capacity.
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2009, 10:52 PM
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Rikky Lee Rikky Lee is offline
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This is early advertising material (around the year 2000??). It was a starting point but we have learnt so much more since then.

BTW I was getting 2400fps out of the 30BR with 125 BTs - the barrel was 21 inches.
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:20 AM
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amafrank amafrank is offline
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I managed to get just over 2400 fps out of 135gr flat points in a 16" barrel but pressure signs were starting to show with flattened primers and hard extraction. I think if we had tried some other powders it might have been possible to squeak a few more fps out of it with lower pressure but we weren't that interested in pushing it too much. The main point was to see if we could equal some 30-30 loads that were used for deer hunting in "olden times" like in the 60's. We did that and blew up some waterjugs for fun as well. I think also that using .221 cases might allow some more powder to be used which we were unable to do with converted military .223 brass. That might keep the pressure lower and the velocity up but the numbers quoted look much higher than real to me too.....


Frank
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2009, 10:28 PM
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Fastshooter03 Fastshooter03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snipecatcher View Post
If I cram the case full of VVN110 and pack it down with the bullet, I can get a 240 gr. bullet moving to ~2200 fps in an 18" barrel. I'm not believing 2600, regardless of barrel length. I just don't think there's enough powder capacity.
Wow, that's pretty amazing considering I was blowing primers out trying N110 and 155 lapuas and getting less than 2000 fps????
Case packed with 20 grains???(don't remember) RL10x with 155 lapuas got 2000fps from 20" bolt. Nice groups too. Shot it at a 600 yd match. Took a few shots to get on paper since the actual BC at that FPS was about .100 less than advertised. But once on keeping it on paper was no prob.
I think my 125 TNT load was doing 2375 from a 11" bbl. Very hot load. Brass was pretty much junk after using.
Bolt gun got to 2500 fps if I remember right.
Those advertised velocities would be more reasonable in a 7.62 x 40mm.


Nick
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2009, 11:11 PM
snipecatcher snipecatcher is offline
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Haha, wow, just realized I wrote 240 gr. That WOULD be pretty impressive. I meant 125 gr. Nosler. I haven't even bothered to see how fast I could get a 240.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2009, 11:29 PM
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Alleycat Alleycat is offline
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It's possible if you ream your Whisper out to a 308
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  #10  
Old 12-23-2009, 07:55 AM
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Colorado Osprey Colorado Osprey is offline
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Those velocity numbers are the same that Remington is now claiming for the 30 AR:
"Remington is loading it with two bullets at 2,800 fps: 123-grain FMJ for practice and target shooting and 125-grain pointed Core-Lokt for hunting. "
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammun...04/index1.html

Seems you need a bigger case capacity to get those numbers.
If the velocity numbers were true, than the lower capacity 30RAR could out perform the 308 Winchester??? Well if you look up those numbers they only compare if you use a 125 grain in the 30RAR compared to a 150-168 grain the 308 Win.
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