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mstarling · #1 11-02-2009, 03:02 PM

Ok Guys,

After having taken as much off the RCBS #10 shell holder as I dared, I got to the point that I could get ammo that would chamber if:

1) I run it through a .223 FL sizer first with the short shell holder. Means the cases are being sized more in the base than usual. Unless this is done, no case can be made that fits the cartridge gauge!

2) The case is then run through the Redding 300/221 Remington FL sizer with the internal neck sizing plug in place.

3) I then took the internal plug out and ran it again to make sure the plug had not pulled the neck out any.

4) primed the brass with WSRs, and

5) load a boat tailed 147 .308 military ball bullet over a weighed charge of 15.5 gr of WW296. Is the starting charge listed several places.

The loaded cases were no worse at fitting into the cartridge gauge than before they were loaded.

I fired several rounds of this with the gas port closed. The cases stuck in the chamber and had to be removed with a cleaning rod. Primers are flat but not brutally so. I expect this ammo is a little hot ... will reduce the charge.

Looking at the fired cases the conclusions I have so far:

A) The shoulder is moving forward and sharpening up when a round is fired.

B) The base diameter of the case is probably what is causing the problems I am seeing. Need to go to a small base die.

C) The starting load is a little hot in the short case.

Am going to order a small base sizing die for .223 and see if that helps. Will have to toss a few pieces of brass I suspect, but only 10 or so.

Other thoughts?

tp555 · #2 11-03-2009, 07:06 AM

Have you tried commercial once fired 223? The LC brass is tough.

amafrank · #3 11-03-2009, 01:05 PM

Are you using 300-223 dies for a 300-221? The reason I ask is that there is such a thing as a 300-223 and it is longer than the 300-221 which would create some of the problems you describe. The 300 whisper is based on the .221 case hence the 30-221, 300-221, 300 fireball etc.....the 30-223 is a different animal entirely so thats important. Maybe just a mistype on your part but gotta ask.
The other issue is as noted by TP555, are you using brass that was fired in an oversized chamber? It is not always possible to resize the brass if its beyond a certain size due to oversize chambers or premature extraction. The case head area of the brass is very hard and springy and will resist sizing much more than the annealed neck area. Try some new unfired brass before getting out the big hammers.

Frank

mstarling · #4 11-03-2009, 02:44 PM

Amafrank,

Sadly it is a typo! Die set is marked 300/221 Remington. My Bad!

Good catch. Thanks,

Mike

Alleycat · #5 11-03-2009, 05:45 PM

Get some new Winchester brass. Size some in your 300-221, and I bet they will work. Don't cut you gas off on supersonic ammo they can be a bitch to unlock. The subs should open up like butter with the gas off. I have Hornady 300 Whisper dies and can send you two or three new cases if you need them.

pug · #6 11-03-2009, 09:41 PM

This is along a different line of using 223 brass but make sure your loaded neck diameter of the rounds are around .330". If they come out to .334" or more you may definitely want to look for some different brass.

mstarling · #7 11-03-2009, 11:00 PM

Guys,

Neck diameter of loaded ammo is 0.329-0.330" so I think I'm good there!

Would not have guessed about the gas cutoff with supersonic. Maybe I'm closer than I think. Will try some subsonic loads and see what happens!

Recipe I've seen for subsonics with 147 FMJs here is 8.0 gr 2400. That make sense to try?

Thanks!

Mike

pug · #8 11-04-2009, 12:24 AM

Its a place to start but keep in mind that bullet weights that light in subsonic can be difficult to get to cycle your action properly. You may want to start with at least 220gr and then go lighter in steps. With a standard port in the pistol position 150s will not cycle for me and I have to open the port up a bit to get them to work. Then you need adjustable gas in order to shoot supersonics so there is a trade off. Or you can cut the gas off and not worry about cycling.

mstarling · #9 11-04-2009, 02:58 AM

Thanks Pug,

I'm not quite that far along just yet. Have to find a reliable way to make and fireform cases before I worry about cycling. FMJs are cheap as I have a bunch of them available for use.

Small base sizing die has been ordered along with new shell holders. Hope to be able to make cases that will be just a smidge smaller at the base with the shoulder a bit closer to the right place. With more reasonable loads we should be able to fireform brass. That would be a huge step forward.

Am working with a test build at the moment. Is just a DS Arms upper on a Stag lower at the moment. Should have a Black Rain billet upper and lower in toward the end of next week. Final build will be done on them. Will have a YHM light weight rifle length free floating forearm and a SOPMOD stock.

Mike

mstarling · #10 11-06-2009, 12:34 PM

Guys,

The small based .223 Rem die came in this morning.

Sized a couple of pieces of brass made with a short shoulder as I was tryinjg to get them to fit into the cartridge gauge ... they dropped in and went too deep. The shoulder was indeed set too short!!!

Sized 10 pieces of brass that had been made with a long shoulder in the small based die. They are indeed too long!

Set the sizing die until they just fit into the cartridge gauge. Seems to work just fine!

Will be able to tell more when some ammo is loaded and fired in the rifle. Am much more comfortable with all of this now. Is a hopeful start!

Have 15-20 pieces of brass that will have to be tossed into the melt can, but that is a small price to pay if we can make 300/221 from 5.56 x 45 brass!