Help me decide, or decide for me!

[ilike2hunt2]

I'm a noob (first day here), and I have only one question. But before I get to it I will tell ya'll this. I have been all over the internet for 2 days and have looked at the Whisper info and Blackout info. I'm converting an AR over to one of these rounds but I can't decide which one to get.

QUESTION: Do I get a Whiper or Black out????

[sha-ul]

I would say go ahead for the blk, that way you can use factory loaded ammo, but can still handload if you wish

[ds762]

the same reamer I got from PTG that said 300-221 now says 300 AAC Blackout (with the original 300/221 markings defaced).

Its the same reamer so which one do you want your gunsmith to call it??

[rsilvers]

Originally Posted by ds762

the same reamer I got from PTG that said 300-221 now says 300 AAC Blackout (with the original 300/221 markings defaced).

Its the same reamer so which one do you want your gunsmith to call it??

The chambers are not the same, it is like comparing 5.56mm to 223. They probably re-ground it. Nothing wrong with that.

[HUNTER2]

Blackout - the best of both worlds. At least it is standarized. I have 2 300-221 and both have different throats, 1.4 and 1.3. A pain!!

[rsilvers]

Picking 300 Fireball or 300-221 now that 300 AAC BLACKOUT has been SAAMI approved would be like picking 22 Varminter (that is what 22-250 was called before it was standardized).

[ohnomrbillk]

Originally Posted by rsilvers

The chambers are not the same, it is like comparing 5.56mm to 223. They probably re-ground it. Nothing wrong with that.

I called Dave Kiff to ask on the reamer print my two 300 whispers are built on. He said the print number is the same for mine as the blackout. I guess I picked the right one......so I guess the difference is the Blackout starts with the letter "B"

I appreciate there were numerous chamber variations in the wildcat days. It is cool for all the new comers to get a standardized chamber with the Blackout.......but it is still 300 Whisper. Mr. Silvers likely has smoke rolling out of his ears on that one. Not arguing he deserves credit for submitting the cartridge through SAAMI. Not arguing that the recent burst of interest will help a great deal of us in new products being available.

Since the Whisper was never a SAAMI spec cartridge, I fail to see how one can apply the 556 vs 223 argument. The whisper was whatever the end user made it. The difference between my chamber and a blackout chamber is less than what difference you will find in individual gunsmith's preferences in verification of head space.

JD had thinner necks due to his use of the 221 case necked up. He decided to be grumpy and keep it exclusive. The rest of the world went with 300/221. One can argue the difference of the chamber's between the two, but it still is within most manufacturer's range of tolerance.

I own a S&W revolver in 45 Colt, a Ruger single action in 45 Colt, and a Marlin lever action in the "same" chambering. Throat sizes are different, and if one wants accuracy out of each with cast bullets, you size to a different diameter. The Smith and Marlin have loose enough chambers that I keep the brass separate. Should I start calling them 451 Ruger. 452 Marlin, and 453 S&W?

My Ruger MkII won't feed CCI subsonic to save its life. My BRNO Mod 4 eats them great. I guess one isn't a 22 LR?

If it were me, I'd use the chamber reamer everyone else is using, and have the barrel marked "300 ilike2hunt2", and you can make it your very own, just like everyone else has.

[Alleycat]

If AAC tells people that you can shoot the 300 Whisper, 300 Fireball, or 300-221 in a 300 Blackout chamber and someone blows themselves up ACC would be liable. You can't blame them for covering there ass.

[rsilvers]

Originally Posted by ohnomrbillk

I appreciate there were numerous chamber variations in the wildcat days. It is cool for all the new comers to get a standardized chamber with the Blackout.......but it is still 300 Whisper.

Not true. The 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber is designed to allow for higher velocity.

Yes, it will fire, but you cannot shoot full power 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo in a 300 Whisper(R) chamber without exceeding SAAMI specs on max pressure.

Comparing 300 AAC BLACKOUT to 300 Whisper is like comparing 5.56mm to 223. They are not the same!

[rsilvers]

Originally Posted by ohnomrbillk

Since the Whisper was never a SAAMI spec cartridge, I fail to see how one can apply the 556 vs 223 argument. The whisper was whatever the end user made it. The difference between my chamber and a blackout chamber is less than what difference you will find in individual gunsmith's preferences in verification of head space.

Headspace is allowed about a 0.006 range, while the throat in 300 AAC BLACKOUT is about 0.050 longer than in 300 Whisper(R) (about the same difference in the 6.8 SPC-II vs the 6.8 SPC throat).

300 Whisper(R) is proprietary but JDJ still has a fixed set of drawings for it. The 300 AAC BLACKOUT has a longer throat than 300 Whisper, just as 5.56mm does compared to 223.

Originally Posted by ohnomrbillk

I own a S&W revolver in 45 Colt, a Ruger single action in 45 Colt, and a Marlin lever action in the "same" chambering. Throat sizes are different, and if one wants accuracy out of each with cast bullets, you size to a different diameter. The Smith and Marlin have loose enough chambers that I keep the brass separate. Should I start calling them 451 Ruger. 452 Marlin, and 453 S&W?

All of the chambers you just mentioned meet 45 Colt SAAMI specs as an allowable variation. The 300 Whisper(R) does not meet SAAMI specs for the 300 AAC BLACKOUT because the chamber is outside of the range allowed by the SAAMI drawing. Likewise, 223 does not meet the dimensional specs for 5.56mm.

Originally Posted by ohnomrbillk

My Ruger MkII won't feed CCI subsonic to save its life. My BRNO Mod 4 eats them great. I guess one isn't a 22 LR?

That would depend on if they are within the specs for 22lr.