I think the first step is have patrick shoot these into the same media and test for expansion.If it what is wanted,and I would like as many opinions as possible after he puts pics up,great,then either go with a tapered jacket where the shank section is heavier for a mushroom,or start looking at a hollow punch/ jacket seraterto make it more fragile. I would really like to do it right the first time but I will be the first to admit that I have never had to play with velocities this low,so again,this is a new field and the worst part is I don't have a whisper to do the trials with...... YET!!!!! Are there any opinions on a ssk barrel or bull berry on a encore frame??????
thanks
Bulletsmith

Richard

There is subsonic load data for a .308 on this board.
7.62x39 will work also although the bore is a couple thousands larger.

Oh, and there is a 7mm Whisper also. http://www.300whisper.com/sskwhisper.html

Stay warm up there,
Bigfoot

Whisper Barrels
 

Bulletsmith, I would look at SSK. JD Jones is the designer of the Whisper and SSK is his company. If anybody knows the round he does.

I will be looking for the bullets. When they get here I'll take measurements, detail my load workup and document the results.

You may want to look over at Silencertests.com also. I was just directed to their site the other day and some of those guys are experimenting with subsonic .308.

Pmc

Expansion vs powdering
 

Bulletsmith, It's great to have someone really looking at our market seriously. I personally am looking for expansion (mushrooming) while maintaining bullet integrity. 100% weight retension to deliver the energy into a coyote/ferrell dog/ferrel hog/bobcat as needed. As for nose design, The only drawback I could think of with a big ol honkin hollowpoint would be many of us shoot these in an AR-15 rebarrelled for 300whisper. The OAL of a loaded round comes very close to the .223 and one way to make brass is to shorten and neck down .223 so it is a natural fit.

The other reason I asked about you coming up with a RNSP instead of HP was that I'd like to see just how heavy a bullet you could come up with. I know I'd like to see something up closer to 300Gr and imagine others may want that as well. Terminal ballistics has everything to do with energy and momentum delivered to teh target so since we have a speed limit of 1050fps, the only way to get more energy is to fling more poo with each shot.

200yds is the farthest I would shoot with the 300whisper. Right now I'm using a .308 but with the influx of uptight urbanites into the country there are more complaints about the noise and shooting so I'm delving into 300whisper to keep the peace, in more ways than one.

Anyway, welcome to the boards and thanks for the attention you're giving our little community. Once you settle on a reliable design, I can see an order for 500 or 1000 from me.
Thanks again,
John

Just go for it
 

If someone has the capacity to start working with Richard just go for it. Nothing worse than waiting for 12 to 24 months for everything to be right and meet mil-spec, we'd all go broke and nothing would be achieved. Get your wet (not frozen you goats) phone books set-up at 100, 50 and 25 yards. Do the comparision against say the standard 220 gn Hornady and 240 Sierra MK. If you can't see the improvement over Richard's deisgn easily in the phone books, scrap it and start again.

Ricahard, from what I understand the Sierra 240 MK does it's work by spinning quickly out of the barrel and then tumbling when hitting the object and therefore creating a cutting wound through the object like a blade. So yes you want something that moves through the air like a tuna in water. You have two options though, follow the Sierra concept of cutting like a knife or collapsing expending all your energy through as large an area as possible. If you could get the jacket of a ULD to collapse in the middle at close range and release shot pellets throughout, thats where I'd be starting. If the jacket didn't collapse fully, or even partially, at the middle to longer ranges you would still get the blade effect.

If and when things look good then take the idea to someone like Blackhills or whoever over there in the US that doesn't mind producing custom bullet loaded ammuntion with the idea. Get them to produce some factory rounds with your cracker bulles. Send some to SKK, get their backing and do an article in a commercial firearms magazine telling everyone how you've revolutionised the sub-sonic cartridge industry with your bullets etc etc etc. Before you know it your bitchin' about how it costs you $700 a tyre for your Diablo and you can't get decent fuel at your local gas station.

At least I entertain myself...where is my Lotto ticket? Just remeber, don't get greedy (okay just a little), don't get jealous (okay just a tad), try and share a little, if someone 'steals' your idea and makes a buck out of it, at least it got further than a net forum.

well,after a terrible long wait,the splined punches are finally made and shipped. I had no idea they would take this long!!!!!!!!Jacket's have been serreated and bullets will be produced this week. Weight estimations will be right at 225 grns to start with. They will be a rebated boattail 6 ogive with a double hollow point.The "double hollow point" means not only is the meplat opened up but there is a massive hollow point put in the lead core as well.

Who wants to try some?????

thanks for every ones patience,tooling takes time
Bulletsmith

subsonic bullets
 

Bulletsmith check your email. I would like to try some of the expanding bullets.

Thanks

DanG

How about some prices?

Hi all
I was supposed to add a full length jacket serreator die to the existing tooling,but it seems it has been backordered.This will, according to the manufacture, be another 30 days. How I hate to wait,but I believe things should be done right the first time.The jackets I have now only have the meplat serreated. Prices will vary depending on weight,jacket style etc.A ball park guess will be $50.00/100.This will depend on how well everthing flows thru the dies,the time thing ya know!!!!
Another thought will be aluminum tips,these are being built into 338 bullets in a week or so.In a subsonic,they could very well act as a wedge and induce massive fragmentation in even a uld design.Time will tell. It will increase oal.

Bulletsmith sounds like you are moving right along and I would like to put my order in for massive expansion without fragmentation if I could please :). I like the sound of your original design and actually used a countersink bit to put a "double hollowpoint" in subsonic bullets but could never figure out a way to serrate the jacket evenly. Can you vary the length and depth of serration at all or is it preset?