I know the 243WSSM is not Sub-sonic....not even close, but with a supressor it is pretty quiet.
Check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE5LlYqgcys

The doe gets a little spooked when her buddy goes down, but no very....
When the 1st shot misses her head she didn't even move!

Could you do a trajectory chart of the 458 @ 3000' above sea level,@ 50 degrees, and the scope mounted 2" above center
with a zero @ 75 yards (or what ever range would best suite it)

You are referring to the 458 socom right? And the bullet doesn't drop signifacuntly more than the lighter rounds? The large caliber 458 seems to have more knockdown power without sacrificing velocity. Can I use my AR as a platform?

http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/z...0-13-09004.jpg


It works in this AR...



Name: 458 Socom 530 Outlaw
Ballistic Coeff: 0.400
Bullet Weight: 530
Velocity: 1050
Target Distance: 75
Scope Height: 2.000
Temperature: 50
Altitude: 3000

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy
0 yds -2.00 in 1050 fps 1297 fpe
25 yds 0.71 in 1036 fps 1263 fpe
50 yds 1.39 in 1023 fps 1231 fpe
75 yds 0.00 in 1010 fps 1201 fpe
100 yds -3.54 in 999 fps 1173 fpe
125 yds -9.17 in 987 fps 1147 fpe
150 yds -17.05 in 976 fps 1122 fpe
175 yds -27.25 in 966 fps 1098 fpe
200 yds -39.82 in 956 fps 1075 fpe
225 yds -54.77 in 946 fps 1054 fpe
250 yds -72.16 in 937 fps 1033 fpe
275 yds -92.00 in 928 fps 1013 fpe
300 yds -114.31 in 919 fps 994 fpe
325 yds -139.11 in 911 fps 976 fpe
350 yds -166.42 in 902 fps 958 fpe
375 yds -196.69 in 894 fps 941 fpe
400 yds -229.30 in 887 fps 925 fpe
425 yds -264.76 in 879 fps 909 fpe
450 yds -303.10 in 871 fps 894 fpe
475 yds -344.36 in 864 fps 879 fpe
500 yds -388.55 in 857 fps 864 fpe




Name: 458 Socom 530 Outlaw
Ballistic Coeff: 0.400
Bullet Weight: 530
Velocity: 1050
Target Distance: 100
Scope Height: 2.000
Temperature: 50
Altitude: 3000

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy
0 yds -2.00 in 1050 fps 1297 fpe
25 yds 1.59 in 1036 fps 1263 fpe
50 yds 3.16 in 1023 fps 1231 fpe
75 yds 2.65 in 1010 fps 1201 fpe
100 yds 0.00 in 999 fps 1173 fpe
125 yds -4.74 in 987 fps 1147 fpe
150 yds -11.74 in 976 fps 1122 fpe
175 yds -21.06 in 966 fps 1098 fpe
200 yds -32.74 in 956 fps 1075 fpe
225 yds -46.81 in 946 fps 1054 fpe
250 yds -63.31 in 937 fps 1033 fpe
275 yds -82.26 in 928 fps 1013 fpe
300 yds -103.69 in 919 fps 994 fpe
325 yds -127.61 in 911 fps 976 fpe
350 yds -154.03 in 902 fps 958 fpe
375 yds -183.41 in 894 fps 941 fpe
400 yds -215.15 in 887 fps 925 fpe
425 yds -249.72 in 879 fps 909 fpe
450 yds -287.18 in 871 fps 894 fpe
475 yds -327.55 in 864 fps 879 fpe
500 yds -370.86 in 857 fps 864 fpe



Name: 458 Socom 530 Outlaw
Ballistic Coeff: 0.400
Bullet Weight: 530
Velocity: 1050
Target Distance: 125
Scope Height: 2.000
Temperature: 50
Altitude: 3000

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy
0 yds -2.00 in 1050 fps 1297 fpe
25 yds 2.54 in 1036 fps 1263 fpe
50 yds 5.06 in 1023 fps 1231 fpe
75 yds 5.50 in 1010 fps 1201 fpe
100 yds 3.79 in 999 fps 1173 fpe
125 yds 0.00 in 987 fps 1147 fpe
150 yds -6.05 in 976 fps 1122 fpe
175 yds -14.42 in 966 fps 1098 fpe
200 yds -25.15 in 956 fps 1075 fpe
225 yds -38.28 in 946 fps 1054 fpe
250 yds -53.83 in 937 fps 1033 fpe
275 yds -71.83 in 928 fps 1013 fpe
300 yds -92.31 in 919 fps 994 fpe
325 yds -115.28 in 911 fps 976 fpe
350 yds -140.76 in 902 fps 958 fpe
375 yds -169.19 in 894 fps 941 fpe
400 yds -199.98 in 887 fps 925 fpe
425 yds -233.60 in 879 fps 909 fpe
450 yds -270.11 in 871 fps 894 fpe
475 yds -309.53 in 864 fps 879 fpe
500 yds -351.89 in 857 fps 864 fpe



338 Specter is a good one on an AR platform 2. The supersonic ammo in most of the rounds sound like a .22lr with mini-mags. ARs are a little louder.

OK, I'm totally confused now. Are you basically saying that any diameter bullet, no matter the weight, fired from 1050fps has a very close trajectory out to 200yards?????

Will the 338 fired at sub sonic speeds mushroom any? Will it penetrate a deers shoulder bone?

I didn't realize I had so many choices. I would like to modify my AR. But, not if it's gonna cost significantly more than buying another rifle and suppressor.

I've been looking at some of the Ruger 44mag rifles. A suppressed 96/44 sounds nice and very quiet. If a suppressor were built into the factory barrel (integral) would the twist rate be to slow to shoot good?

thanks,
swampf0x

Within reason - yes. But subsonics have a rainbow like trajectory and you need to do your homework at all the ranges from 50 to 200 to make sure you have the correct zero.

A 338 Matchking will dump a lot of energy on the way through, but subsonic hunting is more like bow hunting with its effect. Many people get a reaction like an arrow - slow bleed out and collapse - unless you go through the head or spine. A 350/300 grain 338 at 1050 will penetrate a deer and hopefully tumble on the way through. Check out the 338 Whisper footage on U Tube on the hogs.

44 mag factory barrels do not do well at subsonic velocities due to their twist rate. But with a faster barrel twist there is a lot of potential - but you do not get the longer range potential available from the heavy rifle bullets like Matchkings.

So, subsonic one shot kill every time with minimal meat damage out to 200? Either head shots with a 300 Whisper or 338 Whisper or go to bigger with the 458 Socom.

EDIT: just picked up this eyewitness story of shooting deer with the SOCOM

Quote

I used the TTSX on my Buck. The load was 31.5gr H110 and oal was 2.255in. I didn't have time to really get the load working or chrony it but it was shooting into 6" at 100 yards. I am using a RRA upper/RRA carbine lower and a Nikon Prostaff 2x-7x scope with the RRA high mount. I saw the deer coming thru the woods and stood up in my tree stand. I took him @ about 80 yards right behind the left shoulder. The ball angled thru him and out in front of the right rear leg. He jumped his rear end into the air and took off. He made it thru an old river bed about 70 yards from where I hit him. I don't understand how he ran off as when we field dressed him his whole insides looked like scrambled eggs from the heart down. The entrance hole was big enough to get "four" fingers into and the exit was about "three fingers".
We blood tracked him from about five yards from where I hit him right up to where we found him. The blood trail was getting bigger the closer we got to him. We could not recover the ball as it went clean thru. I really like this ball for all the damage it caused. I killed my first Deer when I was 12 years and am now 66 and have hunted all over the US. I like this weapon and load best of any I have used. I might also add he was a "BIG BOY" we couldn't get him up on the four wheeler and had to rig a pully/strap/winch to lift him off of the ground to get him on the rack. I got 68 lbs of Jerky and three rolls of summer sausage from him and his est. field dressed wt. was 240 lbs.

Unquote

FWIW

Only two factors determine a bullets external ballistics. BC and velocity. Two bullets that have the same shape and ratio of length to width will have the same BC regardless of their relative weights. At 200 yds or less a bullets BC will not come into play as much. The high BC bullets will shed velocity slower than low BC bullets. At 500 or 600 yds this will make a big difference, but you are not interested in shooting steel at 500 yds. You have to understand that the 300 Whisper was designed to shoot bad guys out to 300 meters. Deer will react different. Match Kings will let you down. The theory of MKs is that they will turn (tumble) in the deer and cut a wound that looks like a knife went through it. Mks don't always do this. My experience is a 50/50 chance. When they work it is spectacular, but you will loose deer. The larger caliber bullets do more damage and do not rely on the bullet turning. I will include a pic of a 300 Whisper kill and a 458 SOCOM. Both are expanding. I suggest you get a ballistic program and play with it some. Get onto youtube and listen to Whispers and .44s SOCOM and whatever. In the end I am some guy you never met, but I have been there and done that.


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=youtube+suppressed+rifle

This is a thread on the .44 mag. Will a 240 .44 bullet kill a deer? Nope you have to use a 300 gr :smile:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41897


http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/z...utlaw00291.jpg



http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/z...th_Deer016.jpg

Ok, as far as calibers go trajectory differences doesn't matter for my use so why not throw the heaviest bullet. So the 458 SOCOM looks to be my #1 choice. Your's looks great. I'm wanting something like that. Is the lower a normal 5.56 size? What would it cost me to set my AR up like that? How loud is it suppressed? I tried to look it up on the net but couldn't find much about it.

swampf0x

http://www.teppojutsu.com/458.htm

http://458socomforums.com/

just to get you started.

It is a standard AR 15 lower. Mine is a TI. RRA has complete guns as well. If you want a SBR you will need to Form 1 the lower and have it engraved. Orion Arms is the best place to go and get it done. $70

http://orion-arms.com/

There are some guys on this forum that may put an upper together for you.
Teppo Jutsu makes a great gun. It will take a while, but he is a hell of a guy and does top notch work. I am still awaiting my suppressor, but here is a vid of a form 1 suppressor jmorris did. I believe he posts hear.


http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o...ent=m41kf1.flv

nice lungs i think i need them on a coffee mug.