Model 1 Sales 300 whisper upper function problems
 

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When I was first starting with the 30/221 I bought a M1S upper. I had to open up the gas port( I had it done by K2). It functioned fine with subsonics after that. I also used a carbine lower.

I also just got in the Whisper game. I have a flat top 16", and it appears to be a M1S upper. It functions 100% w/ CorBon 150gr SP's, but it almost seems like it may be getting too much gas. I am going to measure the port tonight and see what the diameter is. I recently loaded some 125gr BT's and 125gr Bergers, but I haven't gotten a chance to shoot anything. I've also loaded 25rds of subsonic 240's w/ AA No 9 and 25rds with H110. I will definitely give an update when I shoot them on Wednesday.

I'm pretty sure I will eventually go with an adjustable gas tube, especially after my supressor paperwork clears.

Model 1 sales 300 whisper upper problem
 

Update:

I still can not get the model 1 to work with subsonics. It will not work with corbon factory, or with 240 sierras using W296. In fact, I have the 240s all the way up to 1200 fps, and it still does not cycle. Works fine with supersonic 125s, corbon factory and rem 125 psp with 18.5 W296. I may try another powder with the 240s. Any suggestions from anyone? Faster or slower?

Jripper,

Sorry to hear about your continued problems. Since the rifle is not auto-loading can you see how far the bolt carrier is coming back? I think my carrier is almost coming back far enough and just missing by a 1-1.5mm. The rounds in my mag are scratched from just below the lip where the carrier stopped and went back into battery. I cycled mine by hand and think she'll cycle as the carrier/upper wear in a little. I'm in Cali until sunday so I could not bring the rifle to play with it here, I'll try to shoot some more next week and report back on my progress.

FYI: I'm loading 220 sierras over 9.1gr of H110.

--Chris

I am curious if you have looked at some of the other variables...

Have you tried other powder combinations? With the 300 Whisper in a semi-auto the problem isn't the velocity of the bullet but instead the amount of gas that is left to cycle the action. It may be that the powder you are using just doesn't have enough Ooommpp to cycle things...

Also, are you using this with a Rifle or CAR stock?
What buffer are you using (ESP if it is a CAR - Std, H-Buffer 9mm)
Have you considered modifying the buffer spring a little to take off some of the weight?

I would try other powder combos first but there are a couple other areas that could be changed in this system if needed...

QB,

I haven't thought about the buffer spring untill you mentioned it. I'm running my 300 whisper upper with a full length rifle stock/tube. I don't have a CAR lower but a buddy has an m4gery that I could borrow his lower to see if that helps at all. I would be interested to see if jripper is also running with a full length rifle buffer.

--Chris

Model 1 sales 300 whisper upper problem
 

Latest Update:

I got my Model 1 to function with 240 sierras and AA 1680. It was SSK's reccomended load. I am using a full stocked lower, but am using a reduced power buffer spring, made by Wolff, available through Brownells. However, I think it will work with the load with the stock spring. It looks like slower powders are better. I tried AA #9 and W296, and could not make either one work with either load (W296 load did pick up a new round one time, and will actually work the bolt forward and back, but does not pick up a new round, in other words, very close to working).

I also have a m4 stock, but do not have a lower to put it on yet (Indianapolis gun show is coming soon!!!) so I can not comment on that making a difference.

My loads with the AA 1680 only Chronographed 850 fps, so I will be able to bump up my charge a little. (outside temperature was only 39 degrees, and very damp). I would think that any slower powders would probably work, also. I suppose the pressure peak is farther down the barrel with the slower powders.

This does not bother me a bit. I can live with subsonics with only certain slower powders, if it keeps me from going to the hassle and expense of moving the gas port back to the pistol position.

I'll load up some more round with 1680 and see what I can accomplish.

After I finish these 240's, I plan to get some Sierra 220s, to work with. With the W296 load, they were not stablizing in my gun, even though model 1 says it has a 1 in 8 twist. The 220 corbon load, seemed to stalize OK, but the 240's were going into the target sideways at 25 yards.

I did not shoot any of the 240s with the other powders at a target, so I can not say if they would be any different than the 296 rounds, but I don't see why they would be.

I 'll keep posting as I make progress. I am also working on a load with the 296 and 168 BTHP. SSK claims that can make 1950 fps, and if they do, they will make IPSC/USPSA rifle major power factor.

If they do so safely, there could be a whole new market for this round.

Joel

I would imagine that 850 is to slow to stabilize the 240s. What I have gathered from all sourses is that the 240s are just stable enough to work, at range, with a 1-8" twist. this is why JD Jones says they kill stuff a lot better than the paper ballistics would indicate. (More on that later.) I wouldn't give up on them until you run some at at least 1000 fps.

Just my 2 cents.

300 Model 1 sales
 

Hi all,
I have had my Model 1 300 Fireball for about 9month. Only have about 15 rds thru it. All rounds are 150gr Corbon. The 1st two or three didn't quite function the bolt but since then I've adjusted my Adjustable gas tube and it's functioned great.

I haven't tried the subsonic yet. Was waiting until I had good barrel breakin.

I am interested now if it will function with the subsonic since I've read this.

My plan is to suppress it this year and I'm looking a Lauer Weaponry right now. Wonder if the suppressor will affect the function also?

I may go out this week and run 5 rounds check with subsonic and check my function.

Also liked the full auto 300Whisper video posted on QB website! :lol:

subsonic 220 corbon was a no go in mine also
 

Well, I'm glad QB told me to check the forums here. I went to the range today and fired 4 rounds of 220gr Corbon Subsonic. I quit at for because I figured why waste ammo until I got it fixed. My Model 1 I purchased last year some time around summer. I purchased barrel only and put it together my self with upper and adjustable gas tube.

I've now fired 20 rounds of 150gr Corbon without flaw except for the 1st 2 rounds. I use a M16 bolt carrier which is heavier than the AR15. Standard stock and buffer setup. I was concerned originally thinking I may not have lined up my gas port with the block. I'm using a rail fron gas block with locking screws and I wasn't sure that I was getting it exactly over the hole. I have not gaged my port, however after reading this thread I'm thinking I will. I took 5 rounds of 220gr Subsonic to the range and fired them for effect. 1st one almost pulled the bolt back half way. Most didn't pull it enough to remove the case from the chamber. It was about 20 degrees out side and I forgot my allen wrench to adjust the gas system so I didn't stay around the range and tinker with it. I was pretty much convenced by the posts here it would be useless anyway. I'm going to go back and check the hole size and make sure the gas block is aligned properly. Jripper looks like he has had more trouble than most getting his M1 300/221 to work.

Just thought I'd drop a line here and welcome myself to the club.
:shock:

Model 1 sales 300 whisper upper problem
 

I found some very good information of AR15barrels.com. A retail sight that sells manufactures/sells 300-221 barrels. I believe it is under his FAQ sections, where he states that he also opens up his gas ports to .120, and says that most .223 barrels are around .080. He also says that if the customer wants to use the barrel to shoot subsonics, he puts the gas port at the pistol position, to allow use of all types of ammo.

Opening up the gas port is not that big of deal, as I previously posted.
To move it involves TIG welding the old hole shut, re-drilling the hole in the pistol position (which I am not sure exactly where that is), modifying or replacing the gas tube. You then have to make sure your gas block is going to fit under your handguards (modify or replace most likely). Then, if using a free float, you will have to drill a hole into the handguard to access your adjustible gas system.

There are a few other possibilities that may help. I have tried a reduced power Wolff buffer spring, altough in my case, it did not seem to make much difference(if the loads are real close to cycling, it may help). These spring cost less than $10 (for the rifle length buffer. I still haven't tried my with a CAR stock and buffer, as I am still trying to get a second lower).

JP makes a lightened bolt carrier, that may make cycling easier, and help the loads to work (caution though, use the tactical carrier, and not the match carrier (I believe it is aluminum) as it is only for use with the JP trigger/lightened hammer set). These are $100 plus, and I have not tried them myself, but JP makes excellent products, and have top notch customer service.

There is also a product called a pig tail gas tube. I don't know who makes them, but Brownells sells them. They are supposed to lengthen the pressure curve. This might also help, as I previously posted, I have had luck with slower powder and subsonics. These are $80 plus.

AA 1680 seems to work with subsonics for me, and that if fine, as I primarily want the gun to function with supersonics, as Illinois makes getting a supressor extremely exspensive, if not almost impossible.

My bolt also has broke in quit a bit, and I have not tried the Corbon Subsonics since then, as I shot all but one single round. I can not tell if they would now work.

If you reload, try some loads with the AA1680, or slower powders, unless you absolutely have to be able to shoot factory corbon subsonics.

I suspect that you will have to open the gas port, regardless.

Good luck. Keep posting, as will I, and we will compare our progress.

By the way, I was shooting sub 1/2 inch groups with remington bulk 125 gr psp at 50 yards, and pretty sure it will shoot 1 moa at 100, but was using a Holosight, and the best I could keep them in was 1 1/2 inches.

This is plenty good enough for a 325 upper assembly.

Joel

Hello all.

Sorry I have kept quiet so far, but I lacked anything of substance to say. Just been browsing the site and learning what I could about the Whisper.

Two weeks ago, I recieved my first .300 ar barrel form model 1 sales. The package was shipped from Il to MO for $18. I called, and they said they made a mistake (that was the shipping on a complete upper..????) Anyway, I am waiting on the $8 they are suppose to re-credit.

For anyone wishing to go this rout and build their own, pay attention. Their 300 barrels have a different thread for muzzle devices! No where do they mention this, but your stock AR flash hider will not work. I called up, and they said they would ship one out for an additional $20, plus $7 PHI. These guys relly need to get on board with the USPS.

Anyway, I assembled everything last night, and headed to the range today. As everything else I reload is either mid-level pistol, or high power rifle, I didn't have any magnum pistol powders on hand. I decided to go with H110 due to its versitility, and loaded up some loads. Using info found on line, I fixed up 2 subsonic, and one supersonic load (210g berger, 200g Lapua RN, and 165g Barnes solid.... Hey, its what I had laying around). Thanks to the discussion here, I was not supprised when nothing cycled. The hot 165's would half-extract, but the rest didn't even unlock. Now, granted, I don't have a chrono, and it is below zero outside, so velocities were likely below what they should have been. So I went home.

Got into the gun room here, and started reading over the other threads. I checked my port diameter, and sure enough, just over .1285 (#30 fits). I tried some 200 grain bullets, but jumped the powder from 9.1 to 11gr. Went outside and proceded to make some BIG holes in the earth.... Still not cycling. I dedided to try the non-adjustable gas system off my standard AR carbine....Still not cycling. The bolt will half extract, and stick.

Scratch head....Idea. I looked at the bolt/carrier I was using. While it didn't cycle roughly, it was still just a parkerized finish. I pulled the chrome plated bolt from my other carbine (Matte silver type), and loaded up 3 more rounds. You can appreciate my joy when I watched 3 little pieces of brass jump smartly from my ejection port. Looks like there is hope after all.

Now that things are working, I can begin some real testing. Sorry if I was a bit long winded, by I just wanted to share in the frustration that some of you have experienced. I hope that this was helpfull to at least somebody, and will keep you all posted with future range reports.

Just conducted another test. Looks like 11 g is a bit hot. 10 grains looked good in pressure signs, but only cycled completly about 50% of the time. I think I will look somewhere in between for this bullet (200 gr Gameking). As soon as I get access to a chrono, I will provide addiitonal data.

about the "odd" thread size on the muzzle. I called and asked about that. They do it on pourpose to keep us from hurting ourselves. It is threaded 1/2"x36 tpi which is the same as the 9mm ( and 7.62x39 I think ) that is to keep us from screwing a .223 flash hider on there and trying to shove .308 bullets through it .

look around you might find something you like better that is compatible.

I guess they do not realize that a standard A1 or A2 hider is plenty big for a .30 caliber bullet. A .308 round will go through up to the shoulder.

Model 1 sales 300 whisper upper problem
 

I can kind of see their logic on that one. Altough a standard A1 or A2 flash hider may be big enough for a .30 bullet, some of the various .22 muzzle brakes that you could install may not be.

I still wish they would have used the standard AR thread though.

Model 1 sales 300 whisper upper problem
 

Update:

I think I have this thing figured out. It will run reliably with 220 and 240 graind Sierra's, subonic. Put 20 rounds of 11 gr. AA 1680 and 220 Sierra bullet through last Sunday, and ejection was quite positive. Did not chronograph, but they were very quiet, and almost had to be subsonics. I did chrono the 240s with 10.3 g AA1680, and they were only going 850 fps (they did run, however).

The bolt has broken in, and works a lot smoother.

I am still using a full length stock and buffer tube, and have my JP gas block wide open.

Runs good with all supersonics that I have put through it.

Here is what I have concluded about this gun/round.

Bolt needs to be broke in fully (good tip, Quarterbore)

Gas port needs to be .120 or slightly larger.

Need to use slower powders within the reccomended range for this cartridge, to make it run with subsonics.

I didn't really mind the experimenting, as it has occupied me during the winter.

I still would reccomend the upper, with qualifications concerning what is necessary to make it run.

It is an economical way to get into the cartridge.

If anyone buys one, I would reccomend getting a upper without a bolt, and buying a chrome plated bolt from someplace else, however.

Joel

Re: Model 1 sales 300 whisper upper problem
 

Good to hear Jripper! I've just finished loading up about 100 rounds of 11gr h110 with 220 sierras on top. Hopefully I'll get a chance to run them through my upper this weekend. If they don't eject I'll pick up some AA1680 and see how that works.

Thanks for the info!

--Chris

Let me know how that load works in your gun. As I mentioned eariler, 11g of H110 with a 200 gr Gameking had VERY bad pressure signs. The brass I attempted to reload would not even hold a new primer. I finally settled on 10.2g for reliable operation, though I still need to chrono it.

Don't tell me that, guess I better watch for pressure signs on my 220s, would hate get a KB so early in the game :( What was your parent case? I was told that using 223 parent cases reduces the internal volume slightly which is why I used the 221 fireball brass. That could explain why you would be getting pressure signs early. I used 10g h110 with 220 SMKs and didn't see any pressure signs at all so far.

--Chris

Just for information, I went up to 12.0 grains W296 with 240s, and pressures were fine. It is very similar to H110. I can't remeber which brass I used. I guess each gun is different, as towards maximum loads.