RLL in a Stag Rcvr?

[cntrailrider]

Howdy -

To introduce myself, Steve from El Paso. 51 and a fan/owner of transferrable Mac's Reisings Uzi's, AM180's and now HK's. I guess you would call that being diverse with no pattern. Well the pattern was collecting, as my budget would allow.

Quarterbore, you have probably the most comprenhensive site I've seen on RLL's and DIAS's. After reading for many hours (days) I finally bought an SWD link from a dealer in VT. F-4 should clear any day now. I bought it as an investment, AND to play with. $6400 four months ago was not a bad buy for a RLL, compared to how DIAS's have shot up recently.

Question: Has anyone installed one, WITH SUCCESS, in a Stag Arms lower? Immediately after the ban sunset, I built a pistol using a Stag, Kittykat upper & Ace pistol buffer to make it a legal pistol (rcvr was papered as a pistol when I picked it up, new) The flash & boom on that pistol is alot of fun. Recently built an HK51k too (Love that flash & boom stuff) http://www.gunco.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25623

I own a DPMS 20" but have no intentions of installing my LL in that one, since it's my primary "good" weapon in .223 - nor can I swap that lower to my Kittykat upper and remain legal, since the lower IS the rifle.

Back to the Stag - done alot of measurements in it, and it doesn't look as though the RLL will have space enough to 'move' beneath the upper's rear lug, without doing some milling. I've read every post on this I could find; it seems it will need 1/8" clearance from the lug to the rcvr 'floor'. Not to mention I have a standard DPMS BC.

Has anyone milled a Stag lower, WITH SUCCESS, to host a RLL?

Could use some knowledgable input on this before experimenting by the seat of my pants, and ruining my lower unnecessarily. This will be my first RLL installation.

I just registered to your forum today, and having a 'new kid' pop in asking all about LL's & conversions is not looked upon as kosher on most boards - I invite you to do an inquiry on Sturm, Subguns, etc. just to clear the air.

Thank You - I'm anticipating some helpful advice

Steve W in El Paso

[cntrailrider]

Forgot to subscribe. Now I'm subscribed.

Some of you may have seen me on HKweaponsystems.com & akfiles.com and other boards under the same name - cntrailrider.

Steve

[Quarterbore]

I never played with a Stag lower so I really don't know...

The photo below shows my Bushmaster on the right with a 9mm hammer installed:

http://quarterbore.com/nfa/ar10_ll/ar15-ar10-ll-01.jpg

Notice how the shelf around the selector is below the height of the selector.

http://quarterbore.com/nfa/ar10_ll/ar15-ar10-ll-02.jpg

If your lower has extra material so that the shelf is higher then the selector you will likely have some problems.

Good luck and let us know what you lean as I will update the LL page if the stag lowers will work.

[Wrangler]

How thick is an ll? I seem to have a bit of room under the mine and it is a Stag. Looks like a good 1/8 to me. I do admit that it is cut higher than your Bushmaster.

[prebancolt]

I'm almost certain that the shelf height on a Stag is exactly the same height as a Rock River Arms, both of which are higher than a Bushy, i.e. they won't work without some modification. The mods would only take a few minutes on a milling machine if you knew the correct height of a Bushy shelf. Any other way won't be nearly as easy.

J

[cntrailrider]

Thanks Preban -

I'll need to get a measurement on a Bushmaster, and do a comparison for starters.

Steve

[prebancolt]

I think RLLs work in all guns that a DIAS will, as far as the deck height goes, anyway. On biggerhammer's site, a cad drawing of a receiver shows the proper deck height at 0.630" and the height of a DIAS at 0.625" which seems to confirm the 0.630" deck height.

J

[Wrangler]

Where does one get a RLL now?

[cntrailrider]

Quarterbore & Gentlemen, it CAN be done in a Stag and VERY SIMPLY.

Here is the RLL, after I fit the lower for it. Look where the receiver narrows, in the area above the selector lever. The link would have to penetrate that bottleneck to move rearwards.

http://aycu34.webshots.com/image/7953/2002446924980341890_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002446924980341890)

The RLL fit on the floor, but the 'swell' butted against the bottleneck, allowing no rear travel. So I opened up the sides (channel about 1/8" high) LEVEL/FLUSH WITH THE FLOOR. This allows it to move rearwards, into the cut channel. If you look closely (above) the link is already back into the channel - while still in it's FORWARD-MOST position

Here's another one from a different angle, showing the same thing

http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/9334/2001437233221703914_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001437233221703914)

This pic shows the 'channel cut', or area I removed. It's aluminum and cuts very easily. Don't rush, and you'll still be done in 15 minutes. Good lighting is essential.

http://aycu13.webshots.com/image/9012/2002468553512527736_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002468553512527736)

Here's another shot of the same thing - the left side was easier to photograph. The channel cut on the right side is exactly the same as on the left

http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/6724/2005637773651726315_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005637773651726315)

Important - Round off the FRONT of the channel cuts so the link doesn't catch on the front of the shelf. Mine hung up until I rounded off the LOWER FRONT CORNERS, and buffed them with an abrasive dremmel wheel. Like block-sanding a corner of wood. Used a magic marker, later, to mask the shiney cut areas.

Here's my budget baby -

http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/6411/2002490002597525264_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002490002597525264)

http://aycu05.webshots.com/image/8764/2000634368515041360_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2000634368515041360)

$89 Stag Lower, cheap TAPCO 4 position stock, and a 7" DPMS Kittykat with removable everything. No need to spend $$$ on an SP1. $6,400 for the RRL a while back, and a very good buy. She RUNS EVERYTIME; a real flame-thrower too, with the 7" barrel. Hope to attempt the select-fire mod soon. I enjoy doing constuctive things, that keep me out of trouble

The F4 on the RLL cleared 6 months ago, but have been on the road; this Holiday vacation was my first opportunity to tinker with it. The old addage that you either have the money, OR the time, but never both at once. I'm using a thin paddle (attempting to keep the ROF slow) and haven't tried a thick one yet. I have plenty of Macs, HK's, Reisings etc. for fast fun. I never installed a RLL before, so if I can do it, you can too

Steve in EL Paso

PS I had to grind about 1/32" off the top of the paddle so the carrier wouldn't scrape / hang up, and dremmeled the floor behind the selector about 1/8" deeper (I don't own a mill) to clear the bottom of the paddle. Hope to post a vid soon

[prebancolt]

Congrats and thanks for the info and pics.

J

[cntrailrider]

Your Welcome, PrebanCOLT -

Now here's that video I promised. First time using a remote to video myself, and only had one BETA left. You'll see ejected casings move the camera.

http://media.putfile.com/RLL-with-home-made-select-fire-mod

Thanks Quarterbore, for posting the info to get this gizmo working. Couldn't afford a DIAS, but I still arrived! This is my only F/A AR-type firearm. Have a DPMS HBAR with a XXX suppressor, and that's also become a real addiction - I think EVERYONE oughta be out with their night-vision scope, quietly blowing cans away in the dark. We're doing 200 yards w/ a 1st Gen and learning how far we can push it. It's good for the mind, and besides, its the right thing to do.

Has anyone got their "Plan B" select-fire mod working? I'm trying it too, but have some bugs to work out. The up / down cam action with the selector is really slick. But getting the link to slip FORWARD & up, out of the 'new' D/C notch, and into the standard RLL F/A position has me confounded. Hopefully someone here shares how they got theirs working. I'd prefer not adding a spring

Have a good one - I AM

Steve in EL Paso

PS Went back out and shot another short vid http://media.putfile.com/RLL-One-Mag

[FontanaHorseman]

I am curious about "Plan B" and thought about the problem listed above getting the link out of the cut.

Has anyone worked something out???

Thanks, FH

[FontanaHorseman]

Also on cntrailriders mods to Stag receiver:

I did the same thing and it works fine with one caveat...if you use the RLL protector you will have to mill the lower deck down to .630 or the link will bind.

I am in the process of doing that with a dremel using different cutting heads and it is working fine.

After I test I will post back here but I see no reason it will not work, just takes a little time to do the cuts but you can do it without a lathe/mill.

YMMV, FH

[cntrailrider]

On 'Plan B' - I understand it, and I tried it, and get this......

When the selector is on F/A, it's semi

When the selector is on Semi, it's F/A

:eek:

Nor can I get it to function reliably, even in it's 'backwards condition'. Obviously something in there isn't working right. When it's apart, the selector will lower and (with some fidgeting) raise the link, as intended. I am confounded.

I wish I had a plastic window in my lower, so I could see what's going on in there when it's together

OK you guys can stop laughing now....

I believe someone's going to figure out 'plan B' and eventually it may be me. That sure would be a feeling of accomplishment

Steve in EL Paso

[FontanaHorseman]

I wish I had a plastic window in my lower, so I could see what's going on in there when it's together when it's together

OK you guys can stop laughing now....

Steve in EL Paso

Not laughing - wished the same think myself many times!
FH