New bullet, specifically for subsonic performance

[Ned christiansen]

A friend dropped this off today (I got all of one sample). I think the details will be out soon..... machined from copper like the ones loaded by Guncrafter Industries for the .50 GI cartridge. It's 200 grains on the dot and he says it works in gel at subsonic velocity.

Pics of the GI stuff just as a comparo. The one opened up was shot into bare gel.

http://www.louderthanwords.us/largefoto/picts/ulfls/25112011/21468430151.jpg

[HUNTER2]

Lehigh use to make some a lot like that one out of copper. Had some kind of problem and started making them out of brass. They work real well. Hope these will do the same. Any idea when they will be out?

[Ned christiansen]

They may be already out, trying to establish that.... not sure so I don't want to step out of bounds. Not trying to be the international man of bullet mystery here.....

[LouBoyd]

This is the 308 LeHigh subsonic. Note the 17 cal insert bullet in the tip which is there to add mass and assist in expansion. It's 148 grains without the 20 grain insert bullet.

http://lehighbullets.com/prodimages/308-500T.jpg

[Dacapster]

Hey Lou, seeing any Feral pigs your way?

[L1A1Rocker]

First, that seems a bit light to function an AR. Second, would that be considered an illegal armor piercing bullet? Not based on performance mind you, but based on the construction of the bullet. IIRC, a bullet that can be used in a pistol must have a certain percentage of lead as a core.

[Alleycat]

I’ve never heard of a pistol bullet needing to have lead in them to be legal. I could be wrong. If so, Barnes is in trouble.


http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/pistol/

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/jeffreybehr/Shooting%20stuff/3451-160sopened_all3views.jpg

[LouBoyd]

Hey Lou, seeing any Feral pigs your way?

I've never seen a feral pig in my 15 years of living in the Patagonia Mountains. There are plenty of javelina on my properly, but the economy will have to get a lot worse before I'd consider shooting one for food.

[i8asquirrel]

I have been using Hornady 90 gr XTP with good luck subsonic. They shoot well with IMR 4759 at around 9.5gr and with 4.5 of Trailboss. I killed a nice forked horn Blacktail with a heart/lung shot with the Trailboss load, DRT kill they are too stubby to feed in my AR but in a bolt they kick but!

[L1A1Rocker]

I’ve never heard of a pistol bullet needing to have lead in them to be legal. I could be wrong. If so, Barnes is in trouble.



The definition of ap ammo is at 18 USC 921(a)(17):
"(B) The term `armor piercing ammunition' means-

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and
which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other
substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass,
bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and
intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25
percent of the total weight of the projectile.


While the language says "intended for use in a handgun" the ATF has "interpreted" this to mean, if it can be used in a handgun then it IS handgun ammo.

[Alleycat]

Well :confused:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/08/robert-farago/atf-raid-elite-ammunition-confiscate-armor-piercing-brass-bullets/

But

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/342950/barnes-vor-tx-ammunition-44-magnum-225-grain-xpb-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20

ATF?????

[rsilvers]

Even if the rifle bullet were a handgun bullet, it can still be solid copper. Copper is not on that list.

[L1A1Rocker]

Even if the rifle bullet were a handgun bullet, it can still be solid copper. Copper is not on that list.

That is a good point. BUT, are these bullets really solid pure copper? In reality a lot of "copper" has a bit of beryllium in it, making it beryllium copper. I'm not sure about the bullets in the OP as Guncrafter Industries does not mention anything about their alloy. However, Barns says this about their alloy: "Machined from homogenous copper/zinc alloy, these indestructible bullets won’t disintegrate or deflect on heavy bone." A homogeneous alloy of copper and zinc is brass, and brass is on the list. I'm not sure what the difference between homogeneous and "homogenous" is but I suspect it is a distinction without a difference.

Edit to add link to Barns web site: http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/banded-solids/

[amafrank]

I've never seen a feral pig in my 15 years of living in the Patagonia Mountains. There are plenty of javelina on my properly, but the economy will have to get a lot worse before I'd consider shooting one for food.

Hey wait a minute....those javalina are mighty tasty. Just don't piss off mom when the piglets are with her. They're might grumpy types.

Frank

[sgms18]

Hey wait a minute....those javalina are mighty tasty. Just don't piss off mom when the piglets are with her. They're might grumpy types.

Frank

Hell yeah, Meat is meat! I'll eat damn near anything, if its cooked right

[Dacapster]

I have heard of a few ferrals out east of you......
on the San Pedro WLR. No Tag!

[Ned christiansen]

Rocker, I don't know the answer to that, and wondered the same thing when the Taurus solid copper bullets came out maybe a year or two before CorBon DPX made its debut. I guess there is some special dispensation maybe when the stuff is proven to not actually be capable of doing what tye're so worried about.

[Idge]

wrong thread.

[Ned christiansen]

I got a small handful of these a couple weeks ago and will get them in cases when I can and report.

[thehouseproduct]

Lehigh had some new 30 caliber sub sonic bullets at SHOT. I'll try to post catalog pictures tomorrow. They are also had some pistol bullets that looked amazing. FWIW, they were also exceptionally nice guys.:uzi2:
http://thehousebmx.com/arfcom/photo%202.JPGhttp://thehousebmx.com/arfcom/photo%203.JPG
http://thehousebmx.com/arfcom/photo%204.JPGhttp://thehousebmx.com/arfcom/photo%205.JPG

[sha-ul]

Those ARE interesting.