Range results, 8" &16", RE7, LilGun, Blue Dot, AA9, SR4759, & AA1680

[rumlover]

All shot with the can on, 52 degrees, 65% humidity:

16" Noveske factory upper, carbine buffer spring, H buffer:

AA 1680....
10.3 grains, Hornady 225, 2.120"
1100.6 fps 10 shot average, ejected but didn't fully strip next round

10.6 grains, Hornady 225, 2.120"
1124 fps 24 shot average, these were the first rounds through the new upper. Accuracy at 100 was fairly good, putting all 24 shots into 1.25". The first 13 didn't cycle, but since I was breaking in the barrel as I went, I scrubbed the bolt and chamber. After that, it started cycling for about 5 shots, then went back to ejecting without stripping a new round.

11.2grains, Sierra 240 SMK, 2.120"
1115 fps 3 shot average, cycled the action

N110....
9.6 grains, 1182 fps 3 shot average, did not cycle or eject.

8.5" Pacnor, pistol port, pistol buffer spring with H buffer, Hornady 225, 2.120" for all shots below:

N110.....
8.9 grains, 1041 fps 3 shot average, did not cycle or eject

9.3 grains, 1073 fps 3 shot average, did not cycle or eject

Reloader 7....
9.0 grains, 855fps 3 shot average, didn't cycle or eject
9.5 grains, 889 fps 3 shot average, didn't cycle or eject
10.0 grains, 915 fps 3 shot avg, didn't cycle or eject
10.5 grains, 876.......ejected, but didn't cycle.
When I looked down on the bench, there was unburn powder from each of these loads. I'll try it in the 16" again to see if I get better burn rates.

Lil Gun.....none cycled or ejected
8.2 grains, 1005 fps 3 shot average,
8.4 grains, 1055 fps 3 shot average
8.8 grains, 1061 fps 3 shot averave

Blue Dot, 190 Hornady Soft points.....TOO HOT
6.5 grains, 960 fps 3 shot average, primers looked like they were about to pierce so I didn't shoot the 6.7 or 7.0 grain loads. I may try it again with lighter bullets.

AA9......none cycled or ejected
8.2 grains, 988 fps 3 shot average
8.5 grains, 1012 fps 3 shot average

SR 4759......none cycled or ejected
9.0 grains, 985 fps 3 shot average
9.5 grains, 1006 fps 3 shot average

[sgms18]

Wow! thats alot of cycling probs w/alot of different loads. What size are your gas ports? The port on my 7in gun is 1.5in closer than pistol and is .125. It runs 220 prohunters over 9gr of VVN110, 180 speers over 8.5gr of VVN110 or 1680, and 240 Outlaws over 10gr of VVN110 just fine.

[sgms18]

By the way, all the loads I listed are subsonic. I shot some 150s one time but they went super. Cycled though.

[rumlover]

I'm not sure of the port size, it's one of Spook's builds though. I think I'll switch back to the lighter buffer spring , but use the 6.5oz buffer. Unfortunately, I have to drive an hour away to chrony load. I genuinaly hate living in communist controlled NVA territory. Even the NRA HQ range is problematic.

[sgms18]

I hate it for ya man. Load up and move out, don't know where you live but there are still a few good places left that communist AKA democrats haven't got to yet. I am using an A2 stock w/rifle spring and buffer. Spook made my bbl as well.

[Alleycat]

Noveske states on their web page that their Blackout barrels will not cycle subs without a suppressor. You may need to open up the gas port a bit.

http://http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=b-16-300&cat=168&page=1&search=&since=&status=&title=

[Titleiiredneck]

If you have a extra spring cut a coil or two off, and lighten the buffer. Never shot with a "pistol recoil spring", so I have no idea on that since always using my sbr lower but cutting a coil or two at a time may solve it.

[Ned christiansen]

Kinda surprised about the Blue Dot load. Not that there is a correlation, but my bowling pin load in .45 ACP is more than 10 grains of it (depending on lot) with a 215 grain cast bullet. I'da thought .300 AAC BO would very easily handle your load.....

[snipecatcher]

Kinda surprised about the Blue Dot load. Not that there is a correlation, but my bowling pin load in .45 ACP is more than 10 grains of it (depending on lot) with a 215 grain cast bullet. I'da thought .300 AAC BO would very easily handle your load.....

Two whole different animals. With the .30, you are pushing a long bullet with a lot of bearing surface through a narrow bore. I tried a similar load with Red dot and blew out a primer. The pressure spikes dramatically within 1 grain. Powders that fast are not suitable for the BLK/Whisper.

[rumlover]

I'm not sure of the proper name for the spring that came in the pistol lower from RRA, but it is noticably stronger than the springs in my carbines/rifle lowers.

The Noveske is what is ticking me off. I expect flawless performance for that price. The 1680 load at 10.8 grains will cycle the action, but velocities are running in the high 1100's with Hornady 225's. WTF!

[rumlover]

The post above torqued me off enough to call Noveske. They gave me some idea...well basically reaffirmed my ideas. Of note...they are noticing that Rock River is putting stronger springs in their lowers compared to DPMS, Colt and Stag. That will probably fix the 16".

On the 300W 8", they pointed out that it's the static mass that keeps the bolt in place long enough for the bullet and gas to dump out of the muzzle, and to a lesser extent the spring compression. Consequently, by putting a weaker spring (like the colt that was in there) with a heavier BCG and buffer, it may function.

[sgms18]

Noveske should be able to tell you gas port size w/out you having to tear it apart. Thats really where you need to start. Personally I think the high end ar stuff like Noveske is way over rated and stupidly priced. A good quality bbl and mil spec parts will do anything 99.9% of ppl wana do. I have run 1000s of rounds in semi and full auto(RLL) in my S&W MP15 $800 gun, and my Model 1 Sales 5.45x39 $600 gun AND my whisper was originally a Model 1 5.56 gun, all I did was get a bbl from Spook and swap em out.

[rumlover]

Probably true, but I wanted a quality upper that was ready to go. Shooting 25 round 1 MOA groups (side to side, not center to center) with supersonic ammo at 100y meets that desire. I just need to find a combination of buffer/spring/bufer tube that will work correctly. The evening I recieved the Noveske upper, I took it to the NRA HQ range sitting on top of my service rifle rock river lower with a rifle length buffer tube/spring/buffer combo. With 225 Hornadys over 10.6 grains of 1680, it cycled fine. When I put it on a brand new Rock River carbine lower and tried the same loads, it didn't work. (a little fact I didn't realize until a few days ago while trying to figure out what was going on).

After talking to Noveske this week, I went back to check the buffer tubes and springs in each of my 300 WTF;s and found that the new pistol and carbine lowers I bought have thicker, 2 coil longer springs that take more pressure to compress than the Colt lowers I have. They also have a rougher interior to the buffer tube than the Colts and the RRA Service rifle lower that I have logged thousdands of rounds in. Consequently, I ordered 2 DPMS springs, a Cot H and H2 buffer and a Tubb BCG weight addition. Between all those and what I have, I should be able to find a winning combo.

BTW: I just got back from the range where I shot the Noveske upper with 240 SMK's over 10.7 grains of 1680. It cycled fine and put all 10 proof rounds into .45" at 50 yards. That tells me it's on the border of resolution.

As for the pistol upper, I've got some more test rounds loaded with 1680, N110, and RE7. Once the new springs come in on Tuesday, I'll run through all the combinations until I find a winner. I've gotten great accuracy from this little barrel, I just need to marry it up to the right lower. I'll also take a Colt and DPMS carbine lower as well to see it that makes a difference (quality of buffer tubes).

[sgms18]

Sounds like your getn close. Good luck!

[Ned christiansen]

Rumlover, or should I say fellow rum lover, I'm especially interested in your 8" results. Mine's a Shilen, very narrow lands.... your loads may not directly translate.

[rumlover]

OK Gents...I couldn't take waiting for the additional springs and buffer to come in on Tuesday and I really wanted to get my oldest behind his deer rifle before our big hunting trip next weekend. So here's what I tried today:

For the 8":
I loaded up some 1680, 10.2 grains w/ Hornady 225 Match, and changed out the buffer to a 6.3oz heavy buffer and a lighter weight Colt carbine spring. This was all inside a Rock River pistol lower with their 2 stage match trigger.

10 shot average velocity was 962 with only a standard deviation of 6. All rounds ejected and cycled. I got a little blowback (already using a PRI handle) and increased ejection port noise (less than with the H buffer and Colt spring--cycles hard; more than the Rock River heavy weight spring with the 6.3oz buffer--cycles very soft). When I switched over to a lighter buffer (H) with heavier buffer spring, the same round would eject, but wouldn't completely strip the next round. I still got some crap in the face, but it was less than the previous combination. Ejection port noise was a little less.

Then I tried N110, 8.9 grains w/ Hornady 225's, and the H bufffer with the lighter Colt carbine spring. Average velocity was 1063. None of the rounds fully ejected and it didn't cycle, BUT....the ejection port noise was a lot less with less blowback.

The way ahead....I see a few options here. First, I can find a slightly faster powder than 1680 that still generates a lot of gas. Secondly, I'll try adding the BCG weights to increase the moment of inertia and lock time while using a lighter spring and H buffer. Third, install a better buffer tube. I can feel machining marks inside the Rock River and the guys at Noveske specifically mentioned that issue causing greater friction and malfunctions. Lastly, I can pull off the gas block and install an adjustable block.

NOW FOR THE NOVESKE...

I loaded up the following loads, all with hornady 225's.

10.6 grains, 1092 fps 10 shot average, great accuracy, all cycled
10.5 grains, 1103 fps 10 shot average (better burn rate maybe??), great accuracy and all cycled
10.2 grains, 1066 fps 10 shot average, great accuracy--1 MOA side to side--ALL CYCLED

Then I switched over to 240 SMKs with 10.6 grains of 1680. 1043 fps 10 shot average. All cycled and ejected and it sounded sweet...even sweeter when I saw the 3/4" group in the spotting scope.

These were shot with the same RRA H buffer and carbine spring as last week...WTH! I'm not sure what made the difference. Since my last trip to the range, I scrubbed the whole thing with Kroil and made sure to calibrate the RCBS charge master before changing each load. Perhaps it just needed a good breaking in.

More to come...