new whisper ammo from Hornady

[Mike Bell]

Just picked up a box of Hornady .300 Whisper I had the local shop order for me. ( Still waiting on some Remington BLK ammo) Im going to be checking out everything and compairing them to .300 Blk and the other .300 WTF ammo and my own 30/221 ammo. I'm just intrested in seeing and feelingin my hand the actual differences of all them.

:confused:Whats up with Wilson and his 7.62x40? Why would you go through all the BS when ACC and Remington basicly standized the Whisper? :confused:

[Titleiiredneck]

Case capacity, better burn, better velocity with lighter pills, these are the reasons for the 7.62 covert also. When you can easily reach 2600 with a 147 it makes a diffrence.


Fyi, JDJones standardized the whisper everyone else copied and changed it, some "for the worse"

[Mike Bell]

:bangin: OK maybe standardized was the wrong word :bangin:

But untill this year, all I could order was them high dollar Cor-Bons... I'm kind of glad ACC/Remington SAAMI'ed it.

[Titleiiredneck]

:bangin: OK maybe standardized was the wrong word :bangin:

But untill this year, all I could order was them high dollar Cor-Bons... I'm kind of glad ACC/Remington SAAMI'ed it.

A couple other companys had ammo available but was hard to get/find, thats why I will reload and always will.

[rsilvers]

Fyi, JDJones standardized the whisper, everyone else copied and changed it some "for the worse"

Please post the official standard Whisper(R) chamber and ammo drawing.

[Titleiiredneck]

Please post the official standard Whisper(R) chamber and ammo drawing.

Call 740-264-0176 , they can give it to you. :rolleyes:

[Idge]

The trim length should be more like 1.355 not 1.400 on the Whisper I do believe. Everything else looks right.
300 Whisper
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/300Whisper.jpg
300 ACC Blackout
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/Idge0/BLK.jpg

[rsilvers]

Remember cartridge drawings are 'max.'

The 1.368 brass length has a -0.020 tolerance.

So the brass is really anywhere form 1.348 to 1.368, or 1.358 average.

Rem brass that I have measured was 1.359.

[Mike Bell]

this Hornady Whisper brass looks almost the same as the BLK. The brass length measures 1.359 also. And theneck length seems to be about .265 to the radious.

Would Hornady make their Whisper brass to the same specs as the BLK?

[rsilvers]

this Hornady Whisper brass looks almost the same as the BLK. The brass length measures 1.359 also. And theneck length seems to be about .265 to the radious.

Would Hornady make their Whisper brass to the same specs as the BLK?

Yes, they had the 300 AAC BLACKOUT SAAMI specs and made the brass to be within spec.

[Spook]

Yes, they had the 300 AAC BLACKOUT SAAMI specs and made the brass to be within spec.

or they are so similar they interchange????:eek:

[rsilvers]

Not all Whisper(R) brass interchanges. No one really knows if Whisper brass is supposed to be 1.355 or 1.4 in length. People have seen drawings for it both ways. There are at least three different chambers called 300 Whisper. 300 AAC BLACKOUT is the standard for 300-221 type cartridges now, and there is just one drawing for it.

The Hornady is made to be within 300 AAC BLACKOUT specs.

[Spook]

Not all Whisper(R) brass interchanges. No one really knows if Whisper brass is supposed to be 1.355 or 1.4 in length. People have seen drawings for it both ways. There are at least three different chambers called 300 Whisper. 300 AAC BLACKOUT is the standard for 300-221 type cartridges now, and there is just one drawing for it.

The Hornady is made to be within 300 AAC BLACKOUT specs.

...or the blackout was designed to fit in a whisper chamber.

[Mike Bell]

thats good since I have a Paladin 300-221 barrel.

gonna try a few next weekend :uzi2:

[rsilvers]

...or the blackout was designed to fit in a whisper chamber.

SSK took important dimensions from the Remington designed 221 Fireball and/or Remington designed 223. So it is pretty funny you are implying we took those dimensions from him.

We did not have a Whisper(R) drawing when designing the 300 AAC BLACKOUT but it turns out that SSK borrowed the 221 Remington 221 Fireball's shoulder location, head, and body taper dimensions when designing his cartridge - so when Remington used the same dimensions from the Remington-designed parent cartridge, it turned out to be the same in those areas. At least I think so, but I have still never seen an SSK 300 Whisper drawing. The throat is different, which is why 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo has a potential velocity advantage.

[Spook]

SSK took important dimensions from the Remington designed 221 Fireball and/or Remington designed 223. So it is pretty funny you are implying we took those dimensions from him.

We did not have a Whisper(R) drawing when designing the 300 AAC BLACKOUT but it turns out that SSK borrowed the 221 Remington 221 Fireball's shoulder location, head, and body taper dimensions when designing his cartridge - so when Remington used the same dimensions from the Remington-designed parent cartridge, it turned out to be the same in those areas. At least I think so, but I have still never seen an SSK 300 Whisper drawing. The throat is different, which is why 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo has a potential velocity advantage.

This is laughable , next thing you'll be telling everyone is you never saw a whisper cartridge before coming up with the design :rolleyes: Your "originality" with regard to this cartrdge is next to nil...give it a rest for fucks sakes.

[rsilvers]

Spook - necking a cartridge from 20 cal to 30 cal is not an invention. It is done with every new cartridge. Even the 6.5 Grendal is already a 6mm and a 30 cal.

For the 300 AAC BLACKOUT we did not work from any existing drawing. We took a 221 Remington Fireball and used all base and taper dimensions from the Remington drawings. We then necked it to 30 cal, picked corner radii, and set the throat length so that a 220 grain Sierra would have a 0.010 jump to the rifling if loaded to magazine length. We kept the same headspace location as the 221 Fireball, but changed the diameter datum to ensure that the measurement would not be on a radius.

[L1A1Rocker]

...or the blackout was designed to fit in a whisper chamber.

:eek::eek::eek:

I would caution against putting out such statements as that. You know very well that doing as you suggest is potentially dangerous. I'm not sure what your burr is with AAC but such irresponsible suggestions could endanger someone. Please don't let whatever is bothering you cloud good and sound judgment. And for damn sure, don't suggest someone else do something as dangerous as this.

[sha-ul]

Spook, We get that the name 300blk somehow annoys you, but at this point you are just coming across as an ass, give it a rest eh.

[Spook]

sha-ul,You misunderstand me, Blackout (r), Whiteout (the storm not the correction fluid), In and Out (not the burger), Gee its nice out- think I'll leave it out, all excellent names for cartridges none of which annoy me in the least. What annoys me is calling a Dachshund a Basset hound then telling the entire planet how effective "Bassets" are at digging out badgers...while at the same time attempting to convince me Dachshunds never existed ?
As far as coming across as an ass... under the user CP there is an option to place other users on an "ignore list". I urge you to utilize that feature with regard to my posts. I shudder to think that anything I've typed has affronted your obviously sensitive sensibilities or worse still, that I may be casting pearls before swine. Do us both the favor.

rocker, Its apparent your vast knowledge of firearms supersedes any concepts or experience I may have on the subject and this may come as a shock, but blk ammo functions (perhaps even better than WTF ammo) through 2 (two) WTF barrels I have with chambers dimensionally LARGER than the chambers I cut with my blk reamer. ( insert a row of EEk emoticons here ) Along with difficulty conveying ideas with clarity in writing, you seem to be unacquainted with the practice called of "fireforming".
In the instance of the 6BRX, a conventional 6BR cartridge is fired in a chamber a full .010 longer which moves the shoulder of the cartridge ahead the same distance (thats almost 1/8 of an inch in case you're more used to reading a yardstick than a micrometer) without ill effect. Shazam what'll they think up next? I'd also like to direct your attention to the last two sentences in my response to sha-ul.


rsilvers I feel terrible and quite "asslike" (see sha-uls post). If in fact the blk was conceived as you explained in your last post, my comments requesting clarification were ill founded and I can see how they might be construed as hostile by you or the rest of the board. If any statements I made implied that you appropriated Mr Jones' intellectual property ,dismiss them as it was never my intent. Seriously anyone attempting that stunt had better have access to a decades old legal division with corporate funding at the very least.
There are occasions when I drink vodka (Kettle One (r)) to an excess and cant remember what I've done the next day. Last night was such an occasion ( I think, I cant remember exactly). Before I asked to you please accept my humble and heartfelt apology I have just one teeny weeny question and I'll never broach the subject again. If you didnt work from any existing drawings, how can you be sure you havent replicated the Whisper (r) ?
This is the where I ask you to accept my humblest and heartfelt apologies ....

[rsilvers]

The 300 AAC BLACKOUT drawing may be acquired from SAMMI. While they have not updated their website yet, you can request the drawing from wheckel at saami.org. If you have a real Whisper(R) drawing, you could then compare them and note any differences.

[L1A1Rocker]

sha-ul,You misunderstand me, Blackout (r), Whiteout (the storm not the correction fluid), In and Out (not the burger), Gee its nice out- think I'll leave it out, all excellent names for cartridges none of which annoy me in the least. What annoys me is calling a Dachshund a Basset hound then telling the entire planet how effective "Bassets" are at digging out badgers...while at the same time attempting to convince me Dachshunds never existed ?
As far as coming across as an ass... under the user CP there is an option to place other users on an "ignore list". I urge you to utilize that feature with regard to my posts. I shudder to think that anything I've typed has affronted your obviously sensitive sensibilities or worse still, that I may be casting pearls before swine. Do us both the favor.

rocker, Its apparent your vast knowledge of firearms supersedes any concepts or experience I may have on the subject and this may come as a shock, but blk ammo functions (perhaps even better than WTF ammo) through 2 (two) WTF barrels I have with chambers dimensionally LARGER than the chambers I cut with my blk reamer. ( insert a row of EEk emoticons here ) Along with difficulty conveying ideas with clarity in writing, you seem to be unacquainted with the practice called of "fireforming".
In the instance of the 6BRX, a conventional 6BR cartridge is fired in a chamber a full .010 longer which moves the shoulder of the cartridge ahead the same distance (thats almost 1/8 of an inch in case you're more used to reading a yardstick than a micrometer) without ill effect. Shazam what'll they think up next? I'd also like to direct your attention to the last two sentences in my response to sha-ul.


rsilvers I feel terrible and quite "asslike" (see sha-uls post). If in fact the blk was conceived as you explained in your last post, my comments requesting clarification were ill founded and I can see how they might be construed as hostile by you or the rest of the board. If any statements I made implied that you appropriated Mr Jones' intellectual property ,dismiss them as it was never my intent. Seriously anyone attempting that stunt had better have access to a decades old legal division with corporate funding at the very least.
There are occasions when I drink vodka (Kettle One (r)) to an excess and cant remember what I've done the next day. Last night was such an occasion ( I think, I cant remember exactly). Before I asked to you please accept my humble and heartfelt apology I have just one teeny weeny question and I'll never broach the subject again. If you didnt work from any existing drawings, how can you be sure you havent replicated the Whisper (r) ?
This is the where I ask you to accept my humblest and heartfelt apologies ....


Yep, this about sums it up.

at this point you are just coming across as an ass, give it a rest eh.

[sha-ul]

As far as coming across as an ass... under the user CP there is an option to place other users on an "ignore list". I urge you to utilize that feature with regard to my posts. I shudder to think that anything I've typed has affronted your obviously sensitive sensibilities or worse still, that I may be casting pearls before swine. Do us both the favor.

Spook, you are a valuable asset to this & other boards, I have nothing against you personally, however your posts have been coming across as quite hostile, which I don't think was your intent.

Edit to add, I hadn't looked at the first page in a bit, but I owe you an apology, Title2 started with what seemed to be the harshness, these threads are starting to run together, especiall when I have to speed read, However it seems like all too many of these 300blk vs 300 wtf all end up with someone grumping with RSilvers, instead of asking about any real technical issues. It would be nice if we could somehow get past that point& enjoy shooting& building this damned round. ;)

[Titleiiredneck]

Title2 started with what seemed to be the harshness, these threads are starting to run together, especiall when I have to speed read

Should slow down and read some more!

I just stated the fact for the wilson round bieng used "legitimate reply for a question asked from first post", and said ssk standardized it, and some changed it for the worse.

Silvers asked for the drawing for the whisper reamer and I returned the reply to call ssk.

Nothing bad was said about the blackout round or anything else, just SOME "read some, not AAC or any other mfg was specified in that post" changed it for the worse!!


Fyi, JDJones standardized the whisper everyone else copied and changed it, some "for the worse"


Personally I belive remington did the subsonic shooters a favor for 300 /wtf since now people who donot want to reload can buy ammo besides corbon ect. Apparentley some chambers can run blackout ammo with no problems and some reloading dies can be used for it which in turn will lower the cost in the future and might get more people into it.

[thehouseproduct]

Seriously anyone attempting that stunt had better have access to a decades old legal division with corporate funding at the very least.

Ha Ha Ha! Best line in the whole post!:eek:

[Spook]

Spook, you are a valuable asset to this & other boards, I have nothing against you personally, however your posts have been coming across as quite hostile, which I don't think was your intent.

Edit to add, I hadn't looked at the first page in a bit, but I owe you an apology, Title2 started with what seemed to be the harshness, these threads are starting to run together, especiall when I have to speed read, However it seems like all too many of these 300blk vs 300 wtf all end up with someone grumping with RSilvers, instead of asking about any real technical issues. It would be nice if we could somehow get past that point& enjoy shooting& building this damned round. ;)

sha-ul, You dont owe me anything.... if you were sick of my shit you had every right to say so. If I get sick of anyone elses they usually hear about it ..... there is no hierarchy here and everyone takes their chances once committing their ding dong ideas to print.

[BachelorJack]

I make brass as some of you may know.

My brass runs 100% in BLK chambers.

It also runs 100% in 300-221 chambers. I've got a pile of case gauges made with every reamer out there for 300-221. Between rounds actually fired and cases tested, no problems.

Here's where it gets weird. It runs through some of the ssk cut whisper chambers. Others not at all. But there is no consistency in this in so far as we can tell. This leads us to believe that not all ssk cut chambers are identical to each other. If JD Jone's lawyer hadn't harassed us a month ago I would be inclined to figure out how to modify my brass to run 100% in SSK chambers. Instead I cannot in good faith supply brass to his customers. Which is fine because they can still get brass. They just have to pay more...

I've seen mention before of multiple ssk whisper prints because changes have been made to the original. Not match bolt action, or test barrel vs ar15 reamers, but actual changes. Can't substantiate it. Don't really know. Won't care. But those statements are out there.

[rsilvers]

What harassment did you get? Were you selling a Whisper(R) product without paying a license fee?

[BachelorJack]

What harassment did you get? Were you selling a Whisper(R) product without paying a license fee?

Nah. No one can make a whisper product as only JD Jones has the reamer.

The lawyer for SSK was mad about 2x things.
1- I used "whisper" as a search term in my gunbroker listing.
2- I then stated a Noveske barrel was compatible with whisper ammo.

The lawyer told me I wasn't allowed to do either and needed to change it. When telling me what I was allowed to do or going to do failed for him, he contacted gunbroker, who then pulled my ad. So I re-listed it and contacted gunbroker inquiring about the legitimacy of creating an account to only harass legitimate sellers, Then I gave them links to forums where other individuals had complained about similar treatment. Maybe he lost his account. Haven't heard from him since.

You can't say your item is a whisper unless ssk made it. But you can say your item is compatible with whisper dies, whisper ammo, or whisper brass as all of those things have been made under license by third parties. You can then use "whisper" as a search term so as to link this ad to the stated compatibility with those products. Both of my uses fall under nominative use with ample case law to support my stance.

Here's my ad for any that cares: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=247514868

Wasn't a big deal. Quite laughable really. I mean the guy is the lawyer and realtor for crappy homes in his little village.

[rsilvers]

It is annoying for a trademark holder to see people using their trademark as a search term for a competing product - but he is not correct to say you have to stop if all you did was say it was compatible.

I once noticed an iPod app had in its description "If you like any of these apps, you will like this one too." It went on to list the top 10 apps. Clearly they only did that so that their app would show up in searches for the top 10. I found it exceedingly obnoxious because it was not related at all - and if I were Apple, I would make this search-engine gaming against the terms of service and delete their app. That is the extreme case. You did not do that, as your rifle was genuinely compatible and it was helpful you mentioned it as such.

[oregonshooter]

Can I jump in here and get a clarification that was touched on earlier?

I finally got my stamp for my Palladin 300/221 9.5" AR15 barrel and have not had time to make any ammo for it. The question is, can I run subsonic 300BLK in it until I reload for it and will the brass be fire-formed and ready to go or need trimming to 1.355?

[Spook]

I'm gonna go waaaaay out on a limb here and say you'll be good to go :smile: . be sure and tell us all how it turns out

[Mike-Sid]

What annoys me is calling a Dachshund a Basset hound then telling the entire planet how effective "Bassets" are at digging out badgers...while at the same time attempting to convince me Dachshunds never existed ?

That's a great comment! Thanks!!!!