Lightest barrel profile in bolt gun?

[JuggmasterZero]

I'm going to be starting a build pretty soon based on a Stevens 200. I'm trying to keep the weight as low as possible. What is the lightest barrel profile I can use without sacrificing accuracy?

*Barrel length will be 16"
*Both super- and sub-sonic
*Will be using a suppressor (as soon as I can get out of CA)

Any other relevant information missing?

Thanks

[Scoop]

I'm using a Douglas #4 contour on my Remmy whisper. It finished out at ~.740 at the muzzle (16 inch barrel). Just enough meat to thread 5/8x24 for my suppressor. I really like it. Accuracy is sub-moa with my 208 AMAX & 155 Nosler CC subsonic loads.

[BWE Firearms]

A number 3 contour is the standard for a factory hunting rifle. A number one contour is for manlicher stocks so you can fully bed the barrel to reduce whip.

You don't want to get to light a contour or the suppressor will cause the barrel to droop when it is on.

How accurate do you want the rifle? 2"-3" groups at 100 yards has been the accuracy standard for hunting rifles for as long as I can remember. Most rifles today will shoot better but it is all you relay need for everything but varmint.

[JuggmasterZero]

I'm using a Douglas #4 contour on my Remmy whisper. It finished out at ~.740 at the muzzle (16 inch barrel). Just enough meat to thread 5/8x24 for my suppressor.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you only need .625 diameter to cut 5/8 threads? Or is 5/8 the minor diameter? :confused:

I really like it. Accuracy is sub-moa with my 208 AMAX & 155 Nosler CC subsonic loads.

Good to hear! How long is and how much does your can weigh?

You don't want to get to light a contour or the suppressor will cause the barrel to droop when it is on.

Right! Assume an ~8in., ~22oz. can.

How accurate do you want the rifle? 2"-3" groups at 100 yards has been the accuracy standard for hunting rifles for as long as I can remember.

Definitely looking for sub MOA subsonic 220-240gr. and whatever I can get with the supers.

[Hoser]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you only need .625 diameter to cut 5/8 threads?

You still need a shoulder for the rear of the can to mate up against.

[JuggmasterZero]

You still need a shoulder for the rear of the can to mate up against.

http://www.insomnia.gr/uploads/1290642738/gallery_63654_40_1180.gif DOH!




Well that would limit me to a #3 minimum. Is a #3 heavy enough at 16"?

[Scoop]

You still need a shoulder for the rear of the can to mate up against.

What he said. I am not comfortable going much below .750 with 5/8x24 threads. At .740, you have less than a .060 shoulder. It's enough, but not any too much IMHO. According to the Douglas Barrels chart, a number 3 contour ought to finish out at ~.690 to .700 at 16 inches. That's a shoulder of ~.035 inches. Spook or others may be able to tell you that's OK. It'd be a little too light for my tastes.

BTW, my suppressor is 8.5 inches long and weighs ~28 ounces. No problem with accuracy or "droop."

[jimpa]

Save some money and weight and go with a 9mm can, It is all that you need for the amt. of powder you are going to be burning. Thats what I put on my CZ527 action, matched the 223 countour,,, it works fine.
Good luck

[JuggmasterZero]

Save some money and weight and go with a 9mm can, It is all that you need for the amt. of powder you are going to be burning.

I'm going to be shooting supersonics, also. I was under the impression that was a no-no with a 9mm can.

Thats what I put on my CZ527 action

Lucky! I wish I could afford to build mine on one...

matched the 223 countour

1/2x28 threads?

[Titleiiredneck]

I'm going to be shooting supersonics, also. I was under the impression that was a no-no with a 9mm can.



Lucky! I wish I could afford to build mine on one...



1/2x28 threads?

Depends on the can, trident 9 for example can easily handle it.

You can if you shop around, however the howa is cheaper and the better platform, probally can do it for the same or less than a savage.


You can use 1/2x28 threads but if your 9mm can has a interchangeable rear then you can use whatever they offer, 3 lug ,1/2x28, 5/8x24 ect..

[JuggmasterZero]

Depends on the can, trident 9 for example can easily handle it.

Who actually shoots supers through one? The only information I've been able to find is that it will theoretically be okay due to the similar muzzle pressure to 9mm+p.

You can if you shop around, however the howa is cheaper and the better platform, probally can do it for the same or less than a savage.

How do you figure? The Stevens starts out at least $100 cheaper, the barrels are a toss-up, stocks are cheaper and more available for the savage, etc.

[BWE Firearms]

A Weatherby Vanguard is the same as a Howa but is cheaper then the savage.

[JuggmasterZero]

A Weatherby Vanguard is the same as a Howa...

I didn't realize that...

...but is cheaper then the savage.

...but after looking around, the Stevens goes for ~$320-$400 and the Weatherby starts at ~$410.



Has anyone fired supersonic rounds through their 9mm can? Not just a 'I shot a couple through it and it didn't explode.' 500+ rounds? 1000? Enough to say doing so is not going to destroy it?

[Spook]

I didn't realize that...



...but after looking around, the Stevens goes for ~$320-$400 and the Weatherby starts at ~$410.



Has anyone fired supersonic rounds through their 9mm can? Not just a 'I shot a couple through it and it didn't explode.' 500+ rounds? 1000? Enough to say doing so is not going to destroy it?

jz, people that have been around here for a while are factoring the cost of the Steven's you're going to wish you hadnt built as part of the Howa or Rem you'll eventually build. .... unless you really enjoy actions that drop the case in the ejection phase.

The "search" feature is your friend.

[JuggmasterZero]

jz, people that have been around here for a while are factoring the cost of the Steven's you're going to wish you hadnt built as part of the Howa or Rem you'll eventually build. .... unless you really enjoy actions that drop the case in the ejection phase.

The only reason I'm even considering the Stevens is the significantly lower cost. My first choice would be a CZ 527 but I can't afford it.

The "search" feature is your friend.

I have searched. It's hard to find subjects that are often abbreviated with a single character, in this case a '9', or use characters that search engines see as a space, like '/' or '-' or '.', as in 300/wtf. All I've come up with are threads with people saying it should work. Can you suggest some search terms that will have better results?

[i8asquirrel]

I dont know what your paying for each (Savage vs Howa) but Ole's Gun shop in Salem ore .yesterday had New howa.223 for $349.00 that sounds good to me. My ifle is built off one of these with a schillen barrel and shoots great.:grin:

[Alleycat]

A lot of actions have problems with the abbreviated 300 WTF case. I would go with what Spook and others have suggested. As far as a 9mm suppressor, I can't give you a good answer. If someone with Quickload wants to run the numbers for you it would give you some idea. It's basically muzzle presser that you're after. If supersonic 300 out of a 16" barrel has the same or lower muzzle presser as a 9mm out of a 4"ish barrel it will be safe. It will void all of the warranty's but it will be safe. Depending on the suppressor that you're looking at, It may run you around what a 30 cal can would cost. A Tirant or an Osprey would be bad ass on a subsonic 300 or 338 Specter SBR. Very few of the suppressor manufacturers will tell you that you can use their 9mm suppressor with 300 Whisper supersonic ammo. The ones that do will probably violate your weight restriction.

[jimpa]

1/2 x 28 AND IT IS A tRIDENT.

[Alleycat]

1/2 x 28 AND IT IS A tRIDENT.

What? :confused:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f381/goldspider/Fark/FACEPALM.jpg

I reread the thread

[Titleiiredneck]

Howa or Rem you'll eventually build. .... unless you really enjoy actions that drop the case in the ejection phase.



Yep, I have seen howas for 320 and vandguards for around the same locally. If you have a ar15, another option is a 300 wtf upper with a side charging upper and a on/off block. Will probally end up less or around the same as your custom build and have the detachable mag feature ;)

[JuggmasterZero]

I'm not worried about voiding the warranty. I'm not worried about the can blowing up, either. I'm worried about durability. Like the SS threads pulling out of the Al endcap, or something.

In another thread (I can't find it again for some reason) somebody put up Quickload specs. Muzzle pressure on the hottest supersonic Whisper load was slightly less than the hottest factory 9mm+p load. A suppressor manufacturer's rep in a different thread (I think it was SWR but I can't find this one again either) said that it wasn't just muzzle pressure. Gas volume and bullet length were factors in pressure duration, I think? So less pressure for a longer period?

@i8asquirrel: Good price! Down here in the land of hippies and yuppies they go for over $500!

[JuggmasterZero]

Yep, I have seen howas for 320 and vandguards for around the same locally. If you have a ar15, another option is a 300 wtf upper with a side charging upper and a on/off block. Will probally end up less or around the same as your custom build and have the detachable mag feature ;)

Not in CA... :mad:

[Sami]

I don't know if it the sale is still going on but I paid $179 + tax for a Stevens 200 (got three).

[JuggmasterZero]

WHERE?! How long ago?

[snipecatcher]

I don't know if it the sale is still going on but I paid $179 + tax for a Stevens 200 (got three).

Same here, but I only had the cash for one. Academy Sports runs these sales several times a year. They are only located in the southeast though:

http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=content&target=company/locator/map&lnkSRC=Header

[Scoop]

@i8asquirrel: Good price! Down here in the land of hippies and yuppies they go for over $500!

Then order one from somehwere where they are cheaper and pay your dealer $25 to do the paperwork.

So far, I have built Whispers on a CZ527 (scope mounting sucks), a Howa 1500 and a Remmy 700 (the one I have now). Of the three, the Howa is hands down the best. Reliable feeding and, more importantly, extraction. 20 moa canted scope bases available, good stocks available. Listen to what other folks (Spook especially) are telling you because they have already done it, or forge ahead with the Savage/Stevens and maybe you'll get lucky and it'll extract reliably. Who knows? Anyway, it's your dime. We're just trying to steer you away from the problems we have faced before. As for me, I sure wish I hadn't sold my Howa!

[mak91]

Just got a new CDNN catalog today, they have Howa 1500 Custom Varment .223s for $399 Number is 800-588-9500 if you want to call them about it.

[JuggmasterZero]

Then order one from somehwere where they are cheaper and pay your dealer $25 to do the paperwork.

A large percentage will not ship to CA. Those that will usually charge extra to do so. After shipping and transfer fees it usually ends up costing MORE.

So far, I have built Whispers on a CZ527 (scope mounting sucks), a Howa 1500 and a Remmy 700 (the one I have now). Of the three, the Howa is hands down the best. Reliable feeding and, more importantly, extraction. 20 moa canted scope bases available, good stocks available. Listen to what other folks (Spook especially) are telling you because they have already done it, or forge ahead with the Savage/Stevens and maybe you'll get lucky and it'll extract reliably. Who knows? Anyway, it's your dime. We're just trying to steer you away from the problems we have faced before. As for me, I sure wish I hadn't sold my Howa!

I appreciate all of that but, like previously stated, it comes down to cost. I would rather have a Whisper that shoots than not have one.