Lazerus2000
02-27-2011, 05:06 AM
Back in the mid 1980s, I was a Canadian gun smith and I rebuilt dozens of the beat up military surplus GENUINE Portuguese and Sudanese AR 10s for resale. These were the original Dutch built AR 10s, converted to semi auto only on import into Canada. These old original AR 10s were always my favorite semi auto "battle" rifle.
I even modified one of the Sudanese AR 10s into an early MFORGERY, optimised for CQB and for the short range stages in the old three gun matches. This shorty AR 10 had a chopped 18.5" barrel with a comp. I milled part of the carry handle into a Weaver rail so I could mount an early red dot along with the original irons rear sight. I also fitted AR 15 round hand guards, and an AR 15 pistol grip, and built a skeletonised tubular butt stock [ the butt looked like a YHM AR 15 tube stock ].
I really enjoyed shooting my old original shorty AR 10 at matches ... the AR 10 was simply far superior to any other rifle of the time. Unfortunately, changes in Canadian law made the original AR 10 rifles into a "prohib", the parts dried up, and I got into M14 rifles instead.
So fast forward a few decades to the present.
I had been playing around for years with many different variations of AR 15 rifles and carbines, including a couple in .300 Whisper and an RRA 16” AR 15 in 6.8 SPC. I kept hoping to find an AR 15 and AR 15 compatible caliber that would do what my old original AR 10 would do. But satisfaction with the lighter, less potent AR 15 rifles eluded me.
I was reluctant to try any of the new AR 10/ AR 15 hybrids, which seemed to me to be designed to save money by using as many AR 15 parts as possible, rather than staying true to the old original AR 10 design. I watched as various manufacturers had various teething problems, trying to reinvent the AR 10.
Eventually, when Remington finally introduced their version of the AR 10, with their DPMS built R25 model, I finally got back into the AR 10 game. So far I’ve had THREE of the R25 rifles in .308 Win. Every one of these easily shoots sub-moa. And every one of these had some of the WORST trigger jobs on an AR 15 type rifle that I have ever felt [ and believe me, I’ve felt a LOT of AR triggers ]. I got lucky with one of the R25s and it ended up with a decent trigger pull using the stock parts and the infamous “15 minute AR trigger job”. The next R25 got a JARD adjustable trigger, set @ 2.5 lbs. The third got a custom single stage trigger job set @ 4 lbs.
Once the trigger were taken care of, it was time to decide between setting up an R25 as a close range CQB type carbine, or optimizing it for long range shooting. Since I couldn’t decide which way t go, I ended up buying more R25s, so I could have various options available as the mood moved me.
I am very happy with My DPMS built R25s as they came out of the box [ except for those #$%%^ triggers ], but I did some modifications to make them a bit better for the varying roles they will play. My CQB R25 variant will be set up with an 18.75” barrel and a short comp, with the 4lb trigger, a YHM tubular skeleton butt stock, a Hogue soft pistol grip, and a custom built square floating fore end. I prefer low power variable scopes to red dots on this type of rifle, and will use a Japanese built Bushnell 1.5 – 5X scope on this one. I prefer the lighter recoiling 123 Gr SP ammo for fast / close shooting, but with the 18.75” barrel I can switch to a long range scenario merely by switching mags filled with 7.62 NATO BALL, or 168 Gr HPBT and not lose too much velocity.
The long range R25 variant keeps the 20” fluted barrel with a longer comp, the 2.5 lb JARD trigger, and again an ACE ARFX butt stock, a Hogue soft pistol grip, and a custom built square floating fore end. This one gets a Bushnell 4200 6- 24 Tactical scope. I expect to shoot mostly 168 GR HPBT Match ammo out of this one.
I have a few pics of the long range version, but the shorty is currently in pieces on my work bench, awaiting the fabrication of a custom round to square adapter for the floating HG, and the barrel chop.
As for my third R25 … my spare parts rifle … one of my shooting buddies is a SWAT SNIPER, and his department is looking switching over from their bolt rifles to some form of AR 10. He wanted some trigger time with an AR 10 prior to the change over, so he bought my spare. Previously, I had built three custom M4 rifles for his personal use, but hopefully I have finally convinced him of what I’ve known all along … that the AR 10 is the best semi auto “practical” rifle available.
Too bad we Canadians can no longer legally hunt with our AR 10s. Back when it was legal, I had one memorable bear and Moose hunt up in Northern Saskatchewan with my shorty AR 10. However, these days, my brother in law lives in Washington … and he wants me to join him for an Elk hunt next Fall. That should be fun.
I even modified one of the Sudanese AR 10s into an early MFORGERY, optimised for CQB and for the short range stages in the old three gun matches. This shorty AR 10 had a chopped 18.5" barrel with a comp. I milled part of the carry handle into a Weaver rail so I could mount an early red dot along with the original irons rear sight. I also fitted AR 15 round hand guards, and an AR 15 pistol grip, and built a skeletonised tubular butt stock [ the butt looked like a YHM AR 15 tube stock ].
I really enjoyed shooting my old original shorty AR 10 at matches ... the AR 10 was simply far superior to any other rifle of the time. Unfortunately, changes in Canadian law made the original AR 10 rifles into a "prohib", the parts dried up, and I got into M14 rifles instead.
So fast forward a few decades to the present.
I had been playing around for years with many different variations of AR 15 rifles and carbines, including a couple in .300 Whisper and an RRA 16” AR 15 in 6.8 SPC. I kept hoping to find an AR 15 and AR 15 compatible caliber that would do what my old original AR 10 would do. But satisfaction with the lighter, less potent AR 15 rifles eluded me.
I was reluctant to try any of the new AR 10/ AR 15 hybrids, which seemed to me to be designed to save money by using as many AR 15 parts as possible, rather than staying true to the old original AR 10 design. I watched as various manufacturers had various teething problems, trying to reinvent the AR 10.
Eventually, when Remington finally introduced their version of the AR 10, with their DPMS built R25 model, I finally got back into the AR 10 game. So far I’ve had THREE of the R25 rifles in .308 Win. Every one of these easily shoots sub-moa. And every one of these had some of the WORST trigger jobs on an AR 15 type rifle that I have ever felt [ and believe me, I’ve felt a LOT of AR triggers ]. I got lucky with one of the R25s and it ended up with a decent trigger pull using the stock parts and the infamous “15 minute AR trigger job”. The next R25 got a JARD adjustable trigger, set @ 2.5 lbs. The third got a custom single stage trigger job set @ 4 lbs.
Once the trigger were taken care of, it was time to decide between setting up an R25 as a close range CQB type carbine, or optimizing it for long range shooting. Since I couldn’t decide which way t go, I ended up buying more R25s, so I could have various options available as the mood moved me.
I am very happy with My DPMS built R25s as they came out of the box [ except for those #$%%^ triggers ], but I did some modifications to make them a bit better for the varying roles they will play. My CQB R25 variant will be set up with an 18.75” barrel and a short comp, with the 4lb trigger, a YHM tubular skeleton butt stock, a Hogue soft pistol grip, and a custom built square floating fore end. I prefer low power variable scopes to red dots on this type of rifle, and will use a Japanese built Bushnell 1.5 – 5X scope on this one. I prefer the lighter recoiling 123 Gr SP ammo for fast / close shooting, but with the 18.75” barrel I can switch to a long range scenario merely by switching mags filled with 7.62 NATO BALL, or 168 Gr HPBT and not lose too much velocity.
The long range R25 variant keeps the 20” fluted barrel with a longer comp, the 2.5 lb JARD trigger, and again an ACE ARFX butt stock, a Hogue soft pistol grip, and a custom built square floating fore end. This one gets a Bushnell 4200 6- 24 Tactical scope. I expect to shoot mostly 168 GR HPBT Match ammo out of this one.
I have a few pics of the long range version, but the shorty is currently in pieces on my work bench, awaiting the fabrication of a custom round to square adapter for the floating HG, and the barrel chop.
As for my third R25 … my spare parts rifle … one of my shooting buddies is a SWAT SNIPER, and his department is looking switching over from their bolt rifles to some form of AR 10. He wanted some trigger time with an AR 10 prior to the change over, so he bought my spare. Previously, I had built three custom M4 rifles for his personal use, but hopefully I have finally convinced him of what I’ve known all along … that the AR 10 is the best semi auto “practical” rifle available.
Too bad we Canadians can no longer legally hunt with our AR 10s. Back when it was legal, I had one memorable bear and Moose hunt up in Northern Saskatchewan with my shorty AR 10. However, these days, my brother in law lives in Washington … and he wants me to join him for an Elk hunt next Fall. That should be fun.