Polish grenade launching Kbkg60 - a potential project of mine...

[Quarterbore]

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/kbkg_12.jpg

Here is a PDF Page from a website that had a very good overview of the Polish Kbkg wz. 1960 Grenade launching rifles. I saved it as a PDF as too many of the references I had posted have been removed and now some of that info has been lost :frown:

See: http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/kbkg_wz_1960.pdf

Note that the details below are out of date (as of 2010) but I lack full details to update all of this at this moment too!

------------------------------------------------------------------


WANT TO BUY.... Need for this Project Still

Becuase this post is getting out of control I thought I would relist the last items I need for this project....

1. Straps that hold the rubber boot to the Stock
2. Left side assembly for the gas block (plus hint on the proper detents and springs would be nice)
3. I will need parts to get 922(r) compliance


On to the Project and Review


I am still trying to learn how to build stamped AKs and my time is so limited but I have been adding a few misc parts to my parts bin and now I have two of the biggest parts that I need to make a grenade-launching Polish PMK (Kbkg60) clone...

Here is an image of the Kbkg60 rifle:

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/karabinek_granatnik_wz_1960.jpg
From http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karabinek-granatnik_wz._1960

Here are some links with more info:

Following reposted from: http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/parts4.html

Here we can study the interesting design of the standard Polish spigot type rifle grenade launcher, as issued with the PKM rifle. This rifle was issued with a gas cutoff switch, seen on the gas block. Launcher will thread to standard 14x1 LH threaded muzzles.


http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/pmk_gas_valve_launcher.jpg


Here is an excellent example of the two primary grenade launching sights used on the Polish PMK-DGN-60 and PMKM equipped for rifle grenade applications. The sight at top, which mounts to the host rifle's rear sight base, is part of the Kbk-g Wz 1960 package, while the lower item is the barrel mounted sight for the Kbk-g Wz 1960/72 system.

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/pkm_grenade_sights.jpg



Attached is a drawing of the left side of this rifle (shows the gas block)
(Image attached in case original site deletes or removes it...)

I originally purchased the gas block thinking that I might try a subsonic load or 300 Whisper AK where I need adjustable gas flow... see http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=517

Photo of gas block:

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/wz_60_gasblock.jpg


Update.. I was looking into these guns and parts and Buddy from http://www.sturmgewehr.com e-mailed me and indicated he had one of the Recoil Boots for sale... My lucky day so I grabbed it as soon as I got the e-mail:

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/parts.cgi?read=143643
http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/AK_PolishGrenadeBoot.jpg

WTS Polish PMK-DGN [AK] Recoil Boot $18 shipped

Posted By: Buddy <buddyhinton@hotmail.com> (ppp-64-219-86-104.dialup.hstntx.swbell.net)
Date: 7/31/05 22:45

WTS Polish PMK-DGN [AK] Recoil Boot $18 shipped

Original Polish issue......PMK-DGN Rubber recoil boot ..... used in VG condition.......
recoil boot fits all AK buttstocks..... ....
the picture shows the fastening straps for the Polish wooden stock......
however....this boot does NOT have the straps......these boots fit VERY SNUG....

I have only one boot..... $18 shipped

Payment by US Postal Money Order....cash or Paypal add 3%

Thanks for your Support!!

Buddy




I still need to find the following:
1. Grenade launcher muzzle device
2. Some type of milled kit for the build
3. Need to find or make the back side for the gas block (missing the retaining plate) and I really need a pic to help me make a replacement assuming I can't buy one.

I just found a pretty good image that shows the boot as well as the grenade launcher attachment (POSTED AS A LINK AS IMAGE IS HUGE!)

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/AK_PolishBootGrenadeTube.jpg
(Image above from From Buddy Hinton at sturmgewehr.com)

[Quarterbore]

Here are a few more places I went looking for more info:

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semiforum.cgi?read=67315

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=51&t=75647

More interesting leads and info:

http://www.ak-47.net/ak47/global.html
SSR-99P *Discontinued*


(Photo: Unknown)
Limited production AK by Arsenal USA and Gordon Tech. These are built from Bulgarian milled receiver with parts from Polish grenade launching AK-47. A unique gas cut off switch is a feature of this particular rifle. The laminated Polish stock completes the classic AK-47 look.


There is more info from a long gone page at global trades:


SSR-99P

http://www.globaltrades.com/hi-res%20Images/image22.jpg

Specifications

Caliber-- 7.62 x 39 mm

Action-- Bulgarian machined receiver, semi-automatic

Barrel length-- 16.25 inches

Magazine furnished-- 5 rounds, standard magazine well

Muzzle-- Threaded, slant brake welded on

Barrel type-- Original military

Finish -- Parkerized

Furniture-- Original military issue

Pistol grip American reproduction

US source parts-- Hammer, trigger, disconnector, pistol grip, slant brake


Original military accessories furnished:

bag for grenades
bag for magazines
oiler and cleaning set
grenade launcher
key for fitting grenade launcher
belt
recoil absorber for buttstock
10 round magazine for grenade-launching blank cartridges
Original wood pistol grip


Here is more info on the SSR-99P rifles

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11377

Here is a post where they were for sale new...

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25916&highlight=milled+polish

Here is an exceptional photos of one:

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polish-wz60-full.jpg
From: http://www.gunsnet.net/album/showphoto.php?photo=15218&size=big&sort=1&cat=all

[Quarterbore]

Time to start tracking my costs...

Gas Block: $15
Stock: $45
Boot: $18
Grenade launcher Sight $20
Grenade Launcher Spigot $50 (Shipped)
PMK bayonet $27 (Plus $12.50 Shipping)
PMK Part Kit $150 (Shipped)

Note... No Milled receiver yet so the price will jump...

More updates... I found a guy with a used Grenade launcher sight that belongs to these kits and I have committed to buy that as well along with a bunch of "junk" parts that I wanted to use to build a cut-a-way trainer AKM. I will add pics of that sight when I get it but there are pics of other ones in this thread above...

And I though the Para FAL project was getting to be an expensive project.... I need to sell some stuff now...

[Quarterbore]

Another update... even though I have a full kit lined up I am still looking to add the pieces I need to make a clone as I am so close to having all the extras now...

In that context I just purchased one of the Grenade launcher sights that belongs to this rifle... I spent $40 for it but I am getting it with a few other peices I need for my cut-a-way project so I put the value of the sight at about $20.

I still need two items for this second collection...

1. I need the grenade launcher itself that threads to the barrel.
2. I need the straps for the boot that hold the boot to the stock.

Then I need to figure out what I can use to put these on :bangin:

I also purchased a "practice grenade" or ten... I don't know if these are correct or not for the Polish rifle but I figure if they are close I can make a dummy grenade to put with the rifle...mine will not have the tennis ball or retention straps for the same...

http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2242468#post2242468
I uploaded a pic to make sure I don't lose the image if they get deleted from the other page...

[Quarterbore]

Following are some new pictures I got from KWB52 on Gunsnet.com:
From http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=255093

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/kwb52-kbkg60-launcher.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/kwb52-kbkg60-sight.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/kwb52-kbkg60-bayonet.jpg

After the advise that the above bayonet was the correct type for this project...

That would be the correct pattern bayonet. The most common are the '58 dated models like shown above. There are also 70 dated versions that aren't as common. All of which are date & factory stamped.

I went on a search to find a couple... Well, lucky for me as I looked on eBAY and there were a couple for sale. Following are photos from the auction that shows the bayonet that would be crrect for a milled PMK as well as the weapon that is being described in this thread...

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/bayo-01a.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/bayo-01b.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/bayo-01c.jpg

[Quarterbore]

Looking for additional information....

If anybody happens to drop in here that has a receiver stub or even access to a real WZ 60 that can take a few good photos that show the receiver markings and post them I would really appreciate it.

If that is not enough, I would also love scale tracings or a scan of the markings too if possible but I will take what ever you can provide... I know there are a couple other people looking for this same info so you would be helping more then just myself...

Thanks!

[Quarterbore]

Well, my project continues on... I posted a WTB ad for the Grenade launcher and managed to find a seller in a couple hours. I know someone will post I was out of my mind and that these have sold for much less but I paid $50 for it and it's really nice...

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/grenade-spigot.jpg

[Quarterbore]

Life has been good to me today!!! I have been hawking the Classifeds boards looking for a milled kit for this project for a few weeks now and today I happend to drop in at AR15.com and found this baby for sale...

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/pmkkit-01e.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/pmkkit-01d.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/pmkkit-01b.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/pmkkit-01a.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.com/images/polishbuild/pmkkit-01c.jpg


This 1961 Polish Arsenal 11 milled parts set is not complete, it is missing the FCG and pins, what you see in the pics is what you will get. Numbers match except the gas tube, which fits well. It has a really nice new laminated stock and handguard set. It only has the original pistol grip, which like the original handguards, is well worn. The metal looks good, looks like the rifle was blued originally, now it has that classic brownish patina on a lot of the surface. It has a screw-in barrel and the bore is bright even though you can see copper in it. If you haven't seen a milled parts set, you may not know that they have a heavier barrel profile, larger rear sight base and front sight and I think are better looking than stamped kits. I wish I had the funds to build it, but I don't, so -

$150 shipped CONUS Priority Mail Take MO or Paypal(no charge)

I think it took me 15 seconds to get the word SOLD posted! :nanabang:

Now I have a kit to build upon!

[Quarterbore]

My Second FULL PARTS KIT!!!

This was buriied in the posts above but in addition to all the parts I have collected above I do have a second complete and original wz 60 parts kit and a Bulgy receiver I am buying... I swapped e-mails with the guy and he confirmed it is still mine he is just busy and the kit is burried in storage...

Here is a pic of part of the kit and the receiver he had from days past..

http://quarterbore.com/images/polish.jpg
(Image is pretty large! -- This kit is supposed to have the backpack with all the rest of the goodies as well!)

Time to start looking at the build legalities...

922(r) and a Milled kit

Following is the list of 922(r) Import parts (http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=159) in a milled AK:

(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Muzzle attachments
(4) Bolts
(5) Bolt carriers
(6) Gas pistons
(7) Triggers
(8) Hammers
(9) Disconnectors
(10) Buttstocks
(11) Pistol grips
(12) Forearm handguards
(13) Magazine body
(14) Followers
(15) Floorplates

NOTE - The above is one less then a stamped receiver AKM as the milled kit does not have a front trunion! The five parts in GREEN above are the five parts I am planning to replace in this project.

Receiver

As for the receiver, the firing line milled receier looks to be the only game in town but it looks like a great game anyways...

http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/firingline/page2.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/firingline/Prices.html

[555th]

That is one nice project you have going there. It will be a "one of a kind" when you get it finished.

[Quarterbore]

WOOt - WOOt!!!

I got an e-mail from a guy ar ak-47.net who advised that Jimmy at Global trades has a bunch of extra parts for the wz.60 rifles so I just gave them a call... They had all of the parts I was missing!!!

I think I just spent over $150 for misc small pieces but I think I now have all the correct parts that I was missing to build my clone. If anybody is interested in building a clone like this you might do well to call Global Trades and ask for Jimmy as it sounds like he has just about everything I have bought already plus all the stuff I needed...

I will post an updated list of what I got with the parts numbers when I get the parts...

[3-7Infantry]

Did you get some of the 10 rounder blank only mags as well? I picked up my remaining pieces from Jimmy as well.

My donor rifle with the gas shut off block installed will be here next tuesday.

Only thing left is engraving and re-finishing. :)

Also another piece you might be interested in. :D
1st generation Kbkg Wz. 60 GN sight.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=40931973

Shawn

[Quarterbore]

Yea, I saw those elsewhere and I thought about buying one for the collection but funds are just too tight to keep buying everything I find... I do have two of the blank firing mags and I am pretty sure I now have all the kit except for a couple dummy grenades for the backpack. I have been watching for those but I think I have a better chance on finding a $100 bill in the street if I spent my time looking for that instead.

Please keep in touch as perhaps we can compare notes when we finally get around to building!

QB

[3-7Infantry]

Got the gas block installed and a few other things done by Mike F. @ The firing line. He did a great job as well as cleaning up and polishing all of the rough spots on the rifle. All that is left is engraving and Re-finishing.

http://home.att.net/~shockwave03/Wz.60_1.jpg

http://home.att.net/~shockwave03/Wz.60_8.jpg

http://home.att.net/~shockwave03/Wz.60_5.jpg

Will take somw pics of most of the other parts that I have to go with this clone hopefully tomorrow.

Shawn

[Quarterbore]

Well, it has been three years since I thought about doing these builds but with the elections on the way I finally decided to caugh up the money and buy the receivers I needed.

http://www.firinglineoklahoma.com/akreceivers/standard.html

Firing Line has threaded receivers for Fixed stock AKs in stock but I was not really prepared for the new cost. They cost $700 EACH but these kits sure are pretty worthless without a receiver to mount them on so I ordered a pair of them to built the two Kbkg60 kits on.

Makes me wish I had purchased receivers a couple years ago but at least they are not banned and there was at least someone that was still making receivers fitting of these builds.

[porterkids]

Thought you might be interested in seeing how the Bulgarians do it:

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/565/a868.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/565/medium/BulLaunchx2a.jpg

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/565/ea3c.jpg

[Quarterbore]

That is really slick! I assume the front of the unit is blocked off so all the gas has to go through the launcher. First I had seen anything like it.

[amafrank]

Thats pretty interesting QB.....I didn't realize those kbk kits were so tough to find...I got one from a friend who had 3 more at the time. (3 years back) I thought the kits were a bit pricey but he had the backpack with all the gear except the blank mag and the barrels were the threaded type. I found a milled receiver and cut threads in it for the barrel and that was that. I still need to find the blank mag than I think I'm good. My interest in the kit initially was because of the gas cutoff which makes suppression possible. Once I got it built I realized it was a cool and unique AK in its own right. Glad to see you are perservering in your quest. I ran across someone on gunbroker who was selling backpacks with the boot, sight, oil can, grenade launcher and a mag pouch. Do a search there if you are still looking for any of that. His starting bid was $160 or so on that stuff.

Frank