M9-ft

[debob]

ok im new here so please go ahead and get the bashing for asking this question out of the way,lol.....kidding guys.

i have came across this bayo and read the letters and posts on it and was just wanting to make sure. if i read this right there were only 125 ever made or 125 sent to USMC N.C. ?

[porterkids]

That's tough to answer. My opinion, and that's all this is, is that the USMC order was for 125 pieces but there were probably a few more than that made. Once the die was set and they were stamping blades I would expect that some quantity more than the exact order number were stamped. I don't think there were that many made, as they do not show up very regularly on the secondary market.

[Carlo]

Hello!
Forum member Mister Moon posted in his website an interesting letter by H. Brett about the replicas made.
Last two images at the bottom of the page.
http://www.m9m4.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=engine&idcategory=1&currentpage=32

[debob]

i spoke with mr Brett yesterday on the phone, he stated that there was give or take 125 ever made. i can trace the history on these to being from that lot. Btw does anyone have a hard copy of Mr. Bretts letter, when i asked him he stated that he simply does not have time to find it or write another for me to add to the history of these in my collection.

[porterkids]

debob, welcome to the forum.

You said that you can trace the history on THESE. Did you come across more than one of them? I'd be interested in hearing your story about tracing the history.

Do you have other M9 bayonets in your collection?

[Mister Moon]

From M. DeBob :
2 of the 4 bayos

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9339/bobby2.jpg (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/bobby2.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)


http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/5449/bobbyphotos.jpg (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/bobbyphotos.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[debob]

i only have a gen III Phrobis, a gen 4 Phrobis and a buck, unsure of date but im pretty sure it's just a plain nothing special bay.

i began collecting Ka-Bars by means of my Police dept obtaining them from DRMO. as i would get them in and see various makes and research them and kept some to hang in my office. then i found as long as i kept the inventory to correct numbers i could swap them out, so i go to gun shows and purchase run of the mill ka-bars and swap them out for the ones i wished to toss in my military collection.

then we start getting the M9's in, didnt think much of them until i picked up a box of 20 for friend at another dept. i didnt know much about them but i knew when i looked at them the m9 usmc was something i have never seen even during my short time in army EOD. so i research them and find all this out, i called my friend and told him up front what he had and asked if i could swap 4 regular m9's for 2 FT's and 2 1991's. i have the 1348 where there were shipped to the DRMO, btw the DRMO had a box of about 75 and when i saw what rough shape they were in i didnt pick and choose i just counted out 20, now i wonder what the others were. also that box has already cycled off the DRMO and was set for destruction after it rolled off.

hope this helps

[pwcosol]

Good discussion on this M9 variant! It inspired me to dig out & look @ the three bayonets I have. One is like the examples pictured, with the black oxide finish. A second is the "reproduction" with gray finished blade. The third is like the second, but has no sawteeth cut into the blade; only a smooth bevel. In looking @ the bayonets, I discovered the distinctive differences (outside the blade finish) Mr. Brett was likely referring to which differentiate the "reproduction" M9-FTs from the legitimate issues. They are quite obvious. In addition, none of the three have Lan-Cay marked latchplates or pommel caps. BTW, Debob, regarding the DRMO, was this a USMC DRMO facility? Some years ago, before the disposition of most military surplus was contracted out, and civilians could render live bids on merchandise at public auction, I used to go to several bases on the west coast. Barstow is the regional one for the USMC...

[debob]

No this was at Warner robins, which is by nature an airforce base but it is the main hub for the south east so items from all branches end up there. These bayo's came from NC. I just don't understand why they didn't end up at Cherry Point

[Carlo]

i only have a gen III Phrobis, a gen 4 Phrobis and a buck, unsure of date but im pretty sure it's just a plain nothing special bay.

i began collecting Ka-Bars by means of my Police dept obtaining them from DRMO. as i would get them in and see various makes and research them and kept some to hang in my office. then i found as long as i kept the inventory to correct numbers i could swap them out, so i go to gun shows and purchase run of the mill ka-bars and swap them out for the ones i wished to toss in my military collection.

then we start getting the M9's in, didnt think much of them until i picked up a box of 20 for friend at another dept. i didnt know much about them but i knew when i looked at them the m9 usmc was something i have never seen even during my short time in army EOD. so i research them and find all this out, i called my friend and told him up front what he had and asked if i could swap 4 regular m9's for 2 FT's and 2 1991's. i have the 1348 where there were shipped to the DRMO, btw the DRMO had a box of about 75 and when i saw what rough shape they were in i didnt pick and choose i just counted out 20, now i wonder what the others were. also that box has already cycled off the DRMO and was set for destruction after it rolled off.

hope this helps

First of all welcome to the forums and congratulations for you very nice find!!!!!
I'm reading with interest the story about your bayonets, but I don't understand what the "1348" and "DRMO" are. :o

[pwcosol]

DeBob: Thanks for the info on Warner Robbins. As you stated, being a "main hub" most government surplus, DX'd material in the geographic area likely ends up there for final disposition. What I find unusual is some bases will offer bayonets like the M7 & M9 for sale, yet others send the stuff to the scrapper. Doesn't make a lot of sense, but little does when The Government is involved. However, when it was decided to "privatize" the sale of government surplus about 10 years ago, the result has been a net increase in recovered revenue and reductions in manpower used to administer the DRMOs. BTW, to help w/Carlo's question, learn more here: http://www.drms.dla.mil/ In addition, if you go to "events" link on the left margin, it will lead you to sales and a search feature: http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/endecaSearch?Ntt=bayonet&Ntk=P_Lot_Title&Ntx=mode+matchall&N=0&Nty=1&Ns=P_Lot_Number|0&words=bayonet&cmd=keyword Use FSC (category) 1095 or "bayonet".
On another note, I was looking @ the bayonet listings and there appear to be used black Ontario M9s in one lot. Did not think these were ever contracted for by the military, but the M9s may not have been utilized by them, but another government branch, and purchased with a P-Card. Guess maybe I am going to have to buy a black Ontario now...

[porterkids]

"the DRMO had a box of about 75"

Don't you wish you knew then what you know now? I wonder how many more of the FTs were in there. Great story, thanks for sharing. You made a great score!

[debob]

Well I get sick thinking of what was in that box because I was just grabbing and counting. So there is no telling what could have been?

Btw about 3 months ago my dept got 30 something of the OKC black blade M9's in both handle variations that were still wrapped in plastic. Just think all these bayonets we have obtained have been given out to officers,placed in the trunks of cars and so on. I've checked all my officers who had been given an M9 and so far they are the OKC and gen 3,4 phrobis with a couple bucks tossed in.

[debob]

go check out WTS. i thought maybe i should share,lol.

[Carlo]

In looking @ the bayonets, I discovered the distinctive differences (outside the blade finish) Mr. Brett was likely referring to which differentiate the "reproduction" M9-FTs from the legitimate issues. They are quite obvious. In addition, none of the three have Lan-Cay marked latchplates or pommel caps.

Pwcosol,
since, as far as I understood reading the Brett's notes, the die used for the M9-FT marking had already been destroyed, could you tell us the differences you noted between the reproduction and legitimate issues?
I think this would be helpful for many collectors.

[pwcosol]

Carlo: The "reproduction" M9-FTs were stamped using the same die as the original 125 trials pieces with the "3-line" marking: M9-FT USMC Lan-Cay. According to HB's report, about two years later the "reproduction" pieces were fabbed up, utilizing the same die (hence they have the identical marking). Subsequently the "3-line" die was modified by grinding off the "M9-FT", leaving only USMC & Lan-Cay. This is the die used in the fifth submission to the USMC, with the addition of the Corps EGA stamped on the opposite side of the ricasso. I had heard one of the reasons the "M9-FT" was removed was because the USMC was no longer interested in the "M9", so the designation was eliminated. Jim Maddox did an excellent write-up on them for Frank Trzaska's U.S. Military Knives & Bayonets Forum: http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/jim_maddox.htm
From looking @ the three M9-FTs I have, the discernible differences observed on the "Historical Reproductions" are:
1. Grey finish to blade
2. Off-green color to both scabbards (a somewhat grayish, mottled effect).
3. Original M9-FT has a Fastex clip dated in 1998. Repops are dated a year later or more.
4. Referring to #3, a change was incorporated in the web strap attached to the male part
of the Fastex clip, and the backing hangs down to the bottom of the Bianchi
metal belt hook. This seems to still be in effect.
BTW, the "1348" which DeBob mentioned is the form/tag which accompanies items turned in for re-utilization or destruction. Sometimes on sites like Ebay you will see surplus M9s, etc. with the tag still attached.

[Carlo]

Thanks Fred!