Subsonic Deer Hunting

[fpjeepy05]

I've read a lot of different threads about this, but I wanted to get some more opinions. I shot a doe the other day she jumped and ran 10 feet and stopped behind a tree, then 5 mins later I saw her start walking away so I popped off another shot. again she jump ran 10 feet and stopped. Then bed down. I waited 30 mins and then went over she jumped up and ran. I found next to no blood (3 drops), but I kept looking around and I jumped her again. Got too dark so I came back the next morning and looked around for 2 hours and never found her.

I've got a TC contender 15" 1in8". Bullet was a 240 SMK over 6gr of AA#5. Zero at 85. Shot was at about 25.

Needless to say I can't have this happen again so next year if I hunt with this again subsonic. I would like to use a better bullet. (Otherwise I'm thinking about going to the 130gr Barnes TSX) So far I'm thinking:

240gr SMK (loaded Backwards)
250gr Hawk
275gr Lead Spitzer (from Hotguns @ SilencerTalk)
240gr Outlaw
168gr Leigh

Can I hear a little about each? What do you guys use? Why didn't my 240 smks work? Thank you.

[martineta]

Its exactly like archery hunting.

Lung shots are OK but kill slow. Shoot them in the heart which is a 3 inch target and they take a few steps and die. Shoot them in the shoulder will break some bone and slow them down. Or shoot them in the head and drop them in their tracks.

The two deer I have shot with outlaw 225 grain bullets this season both had a nasty exit hole and left a nice blood trail. Both were double lung shots. Both came from the same batch of reloads that average 1050 fps on the chrony.

I like the subsonics when shooting in the neighborhoods but prefer 125 or 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips at 2200 fps when noise doesn't matter. Even then a double lung shot means the deer is going to run up to 200 yards on you.

Aim for the heart or head or neck where it joins the head if you want instant kills.

[HUNTER2]

From the pictures I have seen on the Outlaw bullets - they work. Have shot or watched 6 deer now bagged with the following bullets - Diamondback Custom Bullets makes some 220's bonded and non with the polimet tips, Clearwater Custom Bullets makes some soft nose 200 and 220"s, Lehigh has some machined brass with 22 cal. nose inserts to move wt forward. All three have done awsome damage to the insides. The impact has to be heard to be believed. My smk's have been demoted to paper punching. All of the above bullets are not cheap! But they will help you eat deer instead of chasing them. Have not recovered any bullets. A Clearwater soft nose entered behind shoulder, lung, liver, paunch ( nasty ) and exited. All good exit wounds. Hope this helps

[fpjeepy05]

From the pictures I have seen on the Outlaw bullets - they work. Have Have shot or watched 6 deer now bagged with the following bullets - Diamondback Custom Bullets makes some 220's bonded and non with the polimet tips, Clearwater Custom Bullets makes some soft nose 200 and 220"s, Lehigh has some machined brass with 22 cal. nose inserts to move wt forward. All three have done awsome damage to the insides. The impact has to be heard to be believed. My smk's have been demoted to paper punching. All of the above bullets are not cheap! But they will help you eat deer instead of chasing them. Have not recovered any bullets. A Clearwater soft nose entered behind shoulder, lung, liver, paunch ( nasty ) and exited. All good exit wounds. Hope this helps

What do the Diamondbacks, Lehighs, Outlaws or Clearwaters do that the SMK doesn't? I thought the idea was to get the longest bullet at to cut the largest wound channel when tumbling.

[HUNTER2]

Tumbling is a "MAYBE" thing, at least for me. If they don't, you had better be hunting the wide open spaces if you plan on finding the deer. I actually had better luck loading 180 Speer btsp backwards. Cuts a neat little hole. All of the others above expand... The Lehigh acts more like the partition and leave a blood trail. They are not as heavy as some on here like them, but so far all I have seen have left good exit wounds. EXPENSIVE...But how many are you going to shoot at deer anyway. I shoot the 180 Speer for everything else. Only shoot single shot and bolt. 4 or 5 hundred does me for a year. I think it was Elmer Keith - I try to do all of my hunting before the shot.....

[fpjeepy05]

It worked this morning, the last day of season. Got a nice Spork or Trike (3-point.) 50 yards. Double lung shot, shattered a rib on the way in and shattered one on the way out, then it got stuck in the shoulder. Light but adequate blood trail ran 70 yards did a little dance and fell. I have it sighted for a zero of 85 yards, and I think my other shot might have been a little high and that's why I lost that other doe. My faith has been restored. Next year I'll try some of the Leigh's and Outlaws
http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/500/Deer_one.jpg
Entrance Wound
http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/500/deer_two.jpg

[Rikky Lee]

Well done!

It sounds a little bit like a range thing for me - 25 yds is too close to get any bullet tumbling but you seem to have found the range the second time at 70 yds. Nevertheless (and I found this with Berger 210s), one failure is one too many and I would leap at Lehighs.

Or do like I did and build a 458 SOCOM!

[robrob]

Hitting bone on the way in definitely helps with the tumble.

[Rikky Lee]

fpjeepy05: did the bullet go through the bone on entry?

[1911man]

I shot 2 hogs last night with 220gr SMK, #1 sow, 130#, 75yds, lung shot, full penetration, ran 18yds and left a MASSIVE blood trail. #2 sow 120#, 55yds, neck shot, DRT. These are the first ones I've shot with subs so no real opinions yet.

So far I've shot 1 bobcat, 8 deer and 7 hogs (up to 210#) with Barnes 130gr TTSX at 2100fps MV from my 11" SBR, all have been clean kills with good penetration and expansion. As far as I'm concerned this is THE hunting bullet for the 300s. Barnes sent me some redesigned to expand down to 1500fps impact velocity for testing, but I can't see any real improvement since I usually shoot from 100yds or less and the regular ones expand just fine (.500") at 100yds when tested in dead hogs.

[fpjeepy05]

fpjeepy05: did the bullet go through the bone on entry?

Though a rib through both lungs through another rib and stuck in the far shoulder.

[d-mon]

I have a little philosophical question ?:confused:

The 300 whisper is from around the early 90's if my memory serve me well.
I find it a bit bizarre that 20 years later we are still at such an early stage of discovery in term of bullet performances on animals and game, penetration, killing power ...etc

What do you think?

Mind you, It took a while for Jack O'Connor to convince the rest of the world of the performances of the 270 winchester.:smile:

ND

[Rikky Lee]

I think it is another case ahead of its time and technology is only starting to catch up with it. Let me go out on a limb and say that the bullets we have been using are wrong for hunting but we do not have an answer for that yet. And there are not enough mainstream users out there to drive demand for new/better components.

Give it another 10 years and review!

[fpjeepy05]

With Remington behind the blackout I bet it unravels even faster.

[martineta]

Remington can try like heck to get the "new caliber" off the ground but basically this is the hardest sell of all. Trying to convince a marketplace that they need some brand new caliber that basically Joe Bubba hasn`t asked for. No easy sell here. Its what as known as Missionary Selling. Trying to sell a product that has no driving need to spur sales. Good luck to Remington and hats off for trying. I wish them well but won`t hold my breath thinking this will be the next .223 rem catridge.

Love my Whispers!

[dick]

I think it is another case ahead of its time and technology is only starting to catch up with it. Let me go out on a limb and say that the bullets we have been using are wrong for hunting but we do not have an answer for that yet. And there are not enough mainstream users out there to drive demand for new/better components.

Give it another 10 years and review!

The future is now fella, have you tried any of the subsonic expanding bullets currently available. Relying on a tubling bullet alone is going out on a limb, not to mention typical over penatration and ricachete of OTB's. PUCKER FACTOR 10....:eek:

[Rikky Lee]

If these specialist bullets are not available at the local gun store and are not in the face of Joe shooter every time he opens a gun magazine then we are not close to mainstream shooter consciousness and market factors remain in play.

If Remington puts developmental dollars into subsonic bullet development and markets it then ...

[gds]

I had pretty good success using sub sonic posted here

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4993

[d-mon]

Well Talking about remington,
What is the last great idea that they produced and took out the world by storm?

Not their ar -15
not their Short action ultra mag cartridges.
not their electronic ignition system
not their barrels wrapped with carbon fiber (except for christensen arms)

The ultra mag series of cartridges: maybe a bit
The 7 remington mag :yes
The model 700 rifle action :yes.

The 350 remington and 6.5 remington also not to bad cartridges have never thrived.
The 260 remington could have had a greater name for itself if remington had dared chambering it in a varmint/tactical rifle with the proper twist at an early stage.
I believe remington has never been the the best at cornering a market, or otherwise they where ahead of their times when nobody needed what they created.

Now they are coming out with the 300 ACC, which as Rikkylee said is a cartridge of no use for the average hunter.
They could chamber it in a short little seven for young shooters, a tactical/ varmint 700 rifle reasonnably priced (not like the flash one on the youtube clip that gona blow the budget),an ar15 , of course they will have too.

Remington is a well respected name in the industry, it would be sad to see them go away. I just hope they are going to head in the right direction.

ND

[dick]

We'll lets all hold are breath for the next ten years, because "we are not close to mainstream shooter consiousness" and "joe shooter" dose not have a supressed rifle nor does he hunt with one. Most "joe shooters" would be happy to shoot factory loaded factory bullet that already exists, just because of price.

[i8asquirrel]

I shot 2 hogs last night with 220gr SMK, #1 sow, 130#, 75yds, lung shot, full penetration, ran 18yds and left a MASSIVE blood trail. #2 sow 120#, 55yds, neck shot, DRT. These are the first ones I've shot with subs so no real opinions yet.

So far I've shot 1 bobcat, 8 deer and 7 hogs (up to 210#) with Barnes 130gr TTSX at 2100fps MV from my 11" SBR, all have been clean kills with good penetration and expansion. As far as I'm concerned this is THE hunting bullet for the 300s. Barnes sent me some redesigned to expand down to 1500fps impact velocity for testing, but I can't see any real improvement since I usually shoot from 100yds or less and the regular ones expand just fine (.500") at 100yds when tested in dead hogs.

I just picked up some of the 130 gr TTS to load for my AR 300 would yo share your load data?:grin:

[Mike Bell]

Yea Im going to try the Tsx 130s also.