300 AAC BLACKOUT 12.5 inch = 300 Fireball 16 inch?

[rsilvers]

It is looking like a 12.5 inch 300 AAC BLACKOUT matches the velocity of a 16 inch 300 Fireball. This is probably due to the extra freebore (like 5.56mm compared to 223 or 6.8 SPC-II compared to 6.8 SPC SAAMI).

I was noticing that I could extra grains of powder before signs of pressure in a load that others were using with 18 grains. Previous loads will need to be re-worked up if you have a real 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber. And remember - don't shoot 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo in a previous chamber as it will have additional pressure.

[SDB777]

Having a little difficulty following what your trying to communicate to me(us)...

Comparing velocity of two completely different cartridges, with different barrel lengths means pretty much, oh well.....

Barrel #1: 14" 300Whisper
Barrel #2: 24" 300Whisper
I can manipulate the powder charge to make the 14"(#1) out perform the 24"(#2) all day. Even if the powder charge is the same, the projectiles can be manipulated to make #1 look superior....even the seating depth, crimp/no-crimp, number of lands and grooves, twist rate, etc, etc.....

Even two completely indentical cartridges just being chambered in two different barrels(with the same twist rate, lands-n-grooves, length of freebore, length of barrel) can give some very large differences.


Or are you saying that the 300AAC is a better cartridge then the 300Fireball?

Scott

[BWE Firearms]

Well put SDB777. I think barrels are like snowflakes no two are the same. I have seen two barrels by the same manufacturer made at the same time using the same ammo that produce different velocities.

I have two of my 338 THUMPERS one 12" one 16". I have loads that are faster in the 12" then in the 16". They were made from the same blank with the same reamer one right after the other.

rsilvers are you talking about subsonic or supersonic loads? What bullets and what powder are you using? What are the twist rates of the barrels? We need more info.

[snipecatcher]

It is looking like a 12.5 inch 300 AAC BLACKOUT matches the velocity of a 16 inch 300 Fireball. This is probably due to the extra freebore (like 5.56mm compared to 223 or 6.8 SPC-II compared to 6.8 SPC SAAMI).

I was noticing that I could extra grains of powder before signs of pressure in a load that others were using with 18 grains. Previous loads will need to be re-worked up if you have a real 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber. And remember - don't shoot 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo in a previous chamber as it will have additional pressure.

But aren't your recommended seating depths extremely short to function correctly in the AR15 mag? Seated to your recommended OAL, seems like there is a lot of powder space wasted.
-Dan

[rsilvers]

I am saying that if you fix the OAL of two cartridges and load the same bullet - one to be 55,000 PSI in a 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber and load the other to be 55,000 PSI in a 300 Fireball or Whisper(R) chamber and use the same barrel blank for each, the 300 AAC BLACKOUT will be higher velocity.

So in effect, the 300 AAC BLACKOUT can get 16 inch 300 Fireball performance from a 12.5 inch barrel.

The difference being like comparing 6.8 SPC-II to 6.8 SPC SAMMI.

[rsilvers]

But aren't your recommended seating depths extremely short to function correctly in the AR15 mag? Seated to your recommended OAL, seems like there is a lot of powder space wasted.
-Dan

True with longer bullets. But that is optional and applies to 300 Fireball and 300 Whisper also for best feeding. You can load to full SAMMI length of 2.26 if you want to give up some feed reliability in existing mags. We are going to make some custom mags for people who want to shoot long ammo.

[Scalce]

So does the extra freebore that positively affects velocity also negatively affect subsonic accuracy as the bullet needs to jump slightly further to the lands?

[rsilvers]

It may negatively effect accuracy that you cannot set up a load to contact the lands, but we did not want the lands to be jammed if someone loaded a 220 or 240 Sierra MatchKing to full magazine length and got stuck bullets. So the lands ended up where they are based on the fact that the SAAMI max OAL is 2.26 inches, and people would be loading Sierra bullets. Military levels of reliability was the most important criteria (I personally got a stuck bullet in a 300 Fireball barrel), and the boost in supersonic velocity was a nice plus.

[Scalce]

It would be interesting to see a subsonic accuracy comparison between two barrels of the same length but one reamed with the 300blk and the other with a 300/221 reamer.

I have always been told that you get better subsonic accuracy with the ability to get close to the lands (more even pressure and velocity) but would be curious to see the results to prove or dissprove that theory.

Of course I am assuming you would need to seat your 220/240 300blk loads longer than your documented COALs for an apples to apples comparison so that might not be what you want.

[rsilvers]

You can seat longer if you want but 300 Whisper(R) / Fireball has a poor reputation for reliability and that is due to the bullets contacting the USGI rib. Remington ammo is loaded shorter and so is very reliable. A custom magazine will allow both a long OAL and feed reliability if people don't mind buying them.

[BWE Firearms]

When shooting subsonic rifles cartridges, it is not if you will get a bullet stuck in the bore but when you will get a bullet stuck.

What was your velocities on the two test barrels. I have not gotten to look at the 300 Blackout print yet. How much longer is your throat then the Whisper?

[fasttwist]

You can seat longer if you want but 300 Whisper(R) / Fireball has a poor reputation for reliability and that is due to the bullets contacting the USGI rib. Remington ammo is loaded shorter and so is very reliable. A custom magazine will allow both a long OAL and feed reliability if people don't mind buying them.

Yes. Its time for another option. I would like to see custom magazines available.

[alorton]

I would be interested in those mags. I load long for the 300/221 and have a 7.62x40 and both prefer de-ribbed Pmags. It would be nice to get one that I didn't have to modify.

[rsilvers]

AAC will have mags with shorter ribs.

[mak91]

Any time line or pricing on those mags ? I'd be good for a few of them.

[Garrett]

I would be interested in those mags. I load long for the 300/221 and have a 7.62x40 and both prefer de-ribbed Pmags. It would be nice to get one that I didn't have to modify.
Yep - I've had best luck with P-mags as well. I've got a couple of 20-round aluminum mags that I modded as well, but the P-mags just need the rib scraped off with a sharp wood chisel.

[Garrett]

...So in effect, the 300 AAC BLACKOUT can get 16 inch 300 Fireball performance from a 12.5 inch barrel...
Okay. But the whole purpose for the .300 Whisper was to shoot heavy bullets at subsonic velocities. It's neat that the 300 AAC can push bullets faster. So can a .308, .30-06, etc. If I want supersonic bullets, I'll use one of those. If I'm shooting a .300 Whisper, or a 300 AAC Blackout, I'm going to tailor the load to give me between 1000 and 1050 fps, in the barrel I am using, whatever that length might be. The top-end velocities in this type of cartridge are not relevant, as long as they are above the speed of sound.

Don't get me wrong. I like what AAC has done with the new cartridge. I like that it's been submitted to SAAMI to give it the mainstream legitimacy that SSK was never able to generate for the .300W. But to tell us that it can push a bullet faster than the .300W just doesn't impress me. That's not the cartridge's reason for being.

Now if you came out and said for a given powder / bullet / velocity combo, the AAC round produces 20% less noise than the .300W when shooting suppressed, I'd be more interested.

[Garrett]

AAC will have mags with shorter ribs.
Shorter ribs (top to bottom), or just eliminate the front rib altogether?

These are of interest to me.

[rsilvers]

Well it is different things to different people. I am into silencers but I keep my 300 AAC BLACKOUT loaded with full power ammo for home defense. The cartridge can be used for hunting with an AR by people who won't hunt with a 22 cal or where such hunting is illegal with smaller calibers. Then they can still load up 30 rounds and plink away. You can't shoot 308 in an AR15. I think getting lots of velocity is important. Anyway I known Remington will sell far more full power ammo than subsonic.

[Mike-Sid]

I am saying that if you fix the OAL of two cartridges and load the same bullet - one to be 55,000 PSI in a 300 AAC BLACKOUT chamber and load the other to be 55,000 PSI in a 300 Fireball or Whisper(R) chamber and use the same barrel blank for each, the 300 AAC BLACKOUT will be higher velocity.

So in effect, the 300 AAC BLACKOUT can get 16 inch 300 Fireball performance from a 12.5 inch barrel.

The difference being like comparing 6.8 SPC-II to 6.8 SPC SAMMI.

Robert what is the advantage of the 300 AAC blackout over the 300 Whisper? Is the faster velocity the only advantage? I have not really read up on the 300 AAC. I figure you are the one to ask. Thanks

[rsilvers]

The main advantage is that it was submitted to SAAMI so now larger companies can make ammo and guns for it. Aside from that, 300 Fireball and Whisper(TM) can do all the same things as 300 AAC BLACKOUT. But yes, 300 AAC BLACKOUT seems capable of higher velocities for any given pressure limit. By the end of next week I should know more about how much we are talking about.

[martineta]

I guess reliability means feeding like its supposed to in a semiautomatic, full auto , or even bolt action mode. Us encore and contender single shot guys don't have those challenges.:cool:

[alorton]

For what it's worth I like that they are taking the reliability first approach. To me an AR is a fighting gun first and a hunting gun second so reliability is my first proirity as well.

As for the super vs subsonic argument, I agree that the bread and butter for the 300W and 300BLK is subsonic suppressed shooting. It was the design criteria for the round in the first place. That said, having a gun that can do both certainly has its advantages. In fact, I think that is one of the most beneficial aspects of this cartridge. I can load 240SMK's for very reliable and quiet subsonic suppressed shooting and then load a mag with 110gr Barnes bullets for hunting or defensive purposes without changing anything. That is a level of versatility that is uncommon and I think it has merit.

rsilvers, any more info on these mags? Metal or polymer? Capacity? Price and release date?