Reamers,1.4 Clymer,1.35 PTG, 300 Aac

[tp555]

Got my 300 aac reamer in and checked it out. Measuring it I get the necks are close and the case at shoulder has about .004" bigger on both PTG's. I cut a case gage with the 1.35 ptg.Then cut with the 300 aac.It did cut a hair of metal at the throat and shoulder.
The 1.4 Clymer is the smallest and true to 221 specs.I have a 221 reamer and it fits the gage.I have a 1.4 gage I used for this.So taking the 1.4 into the ptg gage.Only the shoulder touches.No throat cut at all.So the winner here is the 300 aac.The 1.35 ptg is pretty good.I thought the 1.4 had more throat cut,but not so.The 300 aac reamer doesn't cut pretty and needs some polishing.I was disappointed here but thats a mfg issue.My customers can send your barrel only and I will recut it no charge.Case gage also.Happy holiday.

[HotLead]

Thanks TP! I am sure alot of other people besides myself were wondering how the chamberings compared. I will send my barrel in for rechambering after the SBR tax stamp comes back.

-jd

[mstarling]

tp555,

So ... is it worth having you recut the chamber and gauge for a barrel you built a year ago? And acquiring new reloading dies?

What are the chances factory 300 BLK ammo will chamber and be OK for pressure in the older chamber?

Thanks VERY much!

Mike


(And wouldn't you know it ... just finished 500 pieces of new brass for the old chamber!)

[L1A1Rocker]

Thanks for doing this. Have you checked out the reamers by PTG? They are also going to produce conversion reamers that do not cut on the shoulder so it will not affect head space. Seems like a safe way to convert a chamber.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4642

On edit. rereading this I realize that it IS a PTG reamer that you used. So, what do you think of the idea of using a conversion reamer that does not cut the shoulder?

[rsilvers]

What are the chances factory 300 BLK ammo will chamber and be OK for pressure in the older chamber?

300 AAC BLACKOUT will have elevated pressure in most previous chambers. 300 AAC BLACKOUT compared to 300 Fireball, 30-221, or 300 Whisper(R) is like comparing 5.56mm NATO to 223 or 6.8 SPC-II to 6.8 SPC - the throat is longer and can generally be loaded hotter. This is the reason why the velocity potential is higher from 300 AAC BLACKOUT.

How much it matters, I cannot say. But yes, if you want to shoot 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo you want to run a new reamer up it.

[robrob]

Hotlead, you might want to send in your rifle before you get the tax stamp. That way you and your gunsmith are not dealing with an NFA firearm and there's less threat of NFA law violation and liability.

[rsilvers]

Gunsmiths can work on NFA firearms.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html

Q: May a licensed gunsmith receive an NFA firearm for purposes of repair?

A: Yes, for the sole purpose of repair and subsequent return to its owner.

[mstarling]

Fellas,

Gonna be OK to use LC brass formed for the 300/221 but has not yet been fireformed? Going to need new dies immediately or can they wait some?

Gonna send my bbl and gauge back to tp555 but after deer season. Gonna look for bambi the next couple of three weeks.

[tp555]

Don't know about new dies.Old dies will work. Clean up cutting the chamber isn't a problem if you have a delicate touch and have done a few hundred barrels or so. I started making 30/221 barrels in the early '90s.My chambers are close to dead on.So an extra thousandth won't matter. I only need the barrel to work on. My ffl days are over. With the extra room the new formed brass should fit easier. Somebody try it out and tell us. I don't get to play much.I have peeps wanting their stuff and have to work.

[robrob]

Gunsmiths can work on NFA firearms.

Yes, I know, but there is less hassle, less exposure to accidental NFA rules violations (there is a whole lot of fine print), and less liability exposure when dealing with non-NFA firearms. Given a choice it seems it would be best to actually ship and repair/alter a weapon before it's declared an NFA firearm.

[BWE Firearms]

tp555,

Thanks for the info. I've been trying to find out the differences and no one is talking just saying it is standardized.

robrob,

As far as gunsmithing NFA items there is no difference between Title 1 firearms and NFA. ATF has told me they are treated exactly the same when it comes to gunsmithing.

[rsilvers]

I think you are right as the protection might only apply to licensed gunsmiths.

[BWE Firearms]

The rules definitely only apply to gunsmithing. When it comes to sales, possession, etc I have to follow the rules everyone else does. I can not take possession of an NFA item without a transfer unless it is specifically for gunsmithing and I better have a repair tag written up for it and what is to be done.

[HotLead]

Hotlead, you might want to send in your rifle before you get the tax stamp. That way you and your gunsmith are not dealing with an NFA firearm and there's less threat of NFA law violation and liability.


I will only be sending in the barrel for the cut, crown and threading, after I get the SBR stamp. The receiver will be kept in my safe and I will take it to a local class III dealer for engraving.
-jd

[sha-ul]

Here I sit, with a brand new never fired bbl from Shilen cut to 300/221& some brand new Redding 300/221 dies, & I can't help but wonder if I should screw the barrel onto the action& use the dies, or have the chamber touched up to be compatible with the blk. can the dies be tweaked, or should that be an issue?

[robrob]

Disregard this post, it was contradicted by additional info--the additional engraving is required. Rob

You don't have to add any additional engraving for a short barrel rifle/shotgun unless you indicated you would on the BATF Form 1. The gun's original manufacturer, model and serial info is all that's required.

[BWE Firearms]

You have to engrave the name, city, and state of whoever is manufacturing the SBR/SBS. If I take a rifle and turn it into an SBR I need to put my markings on it. If an individual make an SBR/SBS on a form 1 they need to engrave their info onto the barrel or receiver.

[L1A1Rocker]

Here I sit, with a brand new never fired bbl from Shilen cut to 300/221& some brand new Redding 300/221 dies, & I can't help but wonder if I should screw the barrel onto the action& use the dies, or have the chamber touched up to be compatible with the blk. can the dies be tweaked, or should that be an issue?

I'm in the same boat. I sent an email to redding asking about compatability two plus weeks ago and have not heard back. Tried to call last Friday but they were closed (and remain closed till Monday) for Thanksgiving.

[sha-ul]

I'm in the same boat. I sent an email to redding asking about compatability two plus weeks ago and have not heard back. Tried to call last Friday but they were closed (and remain closed till Monday) for Thanksgiving.
As Tom Petty said, waiting is the hardest part....:tongue:

[robrob]

Disregard this post, it was contradicted by additional information.

You have to engrave the name, city, and state of whoever is manufacturing the SBR/SBS. If I take a rifle and turn it into an SBR I need to put my markings on it. If an individual make an SBR/SBS on a form 1 they need to engrave their info onto the barrel or receiver.

The BATF has answered this question and you do not have to add any markings to a rifle or shotgun that already has a manufacturer and serial # on it. If you make one from scratch (I've done both), you have to engrave/stamp all your info on it, at least .003 deep and 1/16" in size.

[L1A1Rocker]

Just spoke to Robin at Redding. He said that their 221/300 Fireball dies ARE compatible with the new 300 BLK with one exception. The crimp ring is in the wrong location to work on the 300 BLK. As I don't crimp anyhow I don't see this as a big problem.

[Scalce]

The BATF has answered this question and you do not have to add any markings to a rifle or shotgun that already has a manufacturer and serial # on it. If you make one from scratch (I've done both), you have to engrave/stamp all your info on it, at least .003 deep and 1/16" in size.

I think you are mistaken as you would be the only person I have ever heard this from.

You don't have to engrave an SBRed lower that is getting transferred to an individual only if it was already registered as an SBR from the original manufacturer or owner.

If you submit a Form 1 for a non-SBRed factory lower that is already engraved with the manufacturer and serial #, you still need to get it engraved with your name (or Trust name) and the location.

As an example on a standard Bushie:
The Bushmaster name
original serial number
Windham, ME

If you are an individual in another state and want to SBR the lower you will need to also engrave:
Your name or Trust
Your City and State

You can't use just the factory engraving as they are not the ones who technically manufactured the SBR.

[robrob]

Disregard this post, it was contradicted by additional info!

I don't have a copy of the letter but I have seen an official letter from the ATF stating that it's not necessary to add any additional info to a factory rifle/shotgun/lower receiver to register it as a SBR/SBS. I've had several Form 1s for SBRs approved with only Bushmaster's original info and serial # on the form.

Are you guys listing your name/trust name in block h, "Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm)"? If not then the BATF has approved your SBR with its current markings.

Of course when I registered my home-milled AR lower as an SBR I did have to put all my gun trust info on the lower.

With all that said it doesn't hurt to include your info on the weapon, but it isn't required.

Rob

[Scalce]

I don't have a copy of the letter but I have seen an official letter from the ATF stating that it's not necessary to add any additional info to a factory rifle/shotgun/lower receiver to register it as a SBR/SBS. I've had several Form 1s for SBRs approved with only Bushmaster's original info and serial # on the form.

Are you guys listing your name/trust name in block h, "Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm)"? If not then the BATF has approved your SBR with its current markings.

Of course when I registered my home-milled AR lower as an SBR I did have to put all my gun trust info on the lower.

With all that said it doesn't hurt to include your info on the weapon, but it isn't required.

Rob

If what you are saying is correct, I don't understand why all of the class 3 dealers are not aware.

My stamp has:

3b - My Trust name and address

4a - The rifle's original markings

4h - blank - "Additional Description (Include all numbers and other identifying data which will appear on the firearm)"

[robrob]

After researching the issue there seems to be a final decision by the BATF that you do indeed have to mark all SBR/SBSs created using a BATF Form 1.

In this thread both the original letter from the BATF saying no markings required and a follow up letter that says it is required is shown:

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17660

Sorry about the bad info.

Rob

[Scalce]

After researching the issue there seems to be a final decision by the BATF that you do indeed have to mark all SBR/SBSs created using a BATF Form 1.

In this thread both the original letter from the BATF saying no markings required and a follow up letter that says it is required is shown:

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17660

Sorry about the bad info.

Rob

No worries

I just didn't want you to be hauled off in handcuffs. :grin:

[thehouseproduct]

Are there any benefits to buying a finishing reamer and cleaning up a Sinarms 300/221 and or my DTI 300 fireball chambers? I have a devil of a time making brass chamber in the Delton 300 Fireball.

[sha-ul]

I'm in the same boat. I sent an email to redding asking about compatability two plus weeks ago and have not heard back. Tried to call last Friday but they were closed (and remain closed till Monday) for Thanksgiving.

Just spoke to Robin at Redding. He said that their 221/300 Fireball dies ARE compatible with the new 300 BLK with one exception. The crimp ring is in the wrong location to work on the 300 BLK. As I don't crimp anyhow I don't see this as a big problem.
I wonder if the seating die can be retrofitted.
Since I will be loading for a Savage, will I need to crimp?

[robrob]

You shouldn't need to crimp for a bolt rifle. Normally it's only needed for military rounds as insurance from rough handling and full-auto firing. Your current Redding die set to not crimp (1 turn away from touching the shell holder) should be fine.

[HotLead]

Nevertheless, I hope Redding decides to produce a proper 300 BLK die set, as they are my preferred dies. I would definitely like to apply a light crimp to the ammo when loading for the AR.

[rsilvers]

If they get a bunch of requests they probably will.

[sha-ul]

If they get a bunch of requests they probably will.

I imagine it would only take a few keystrokes to modify the cnc program for the crimp die, and a few more to modify the box label.
pure speculation here, but I imagine that once current production is exhausted, they will probably reprogram.

[BWE Firearms]

I have talked to a number of companies (reamers, dies, etc.) that are planning on switching from Whisper/300-221 to the blackout once SAAMI finally approves the Blackout drawing. Once it is approved you will also get more companies making uppers.

[RobRat]

Nevertheless, I hope Redding decides to produce a proper 300 BLK die set, as they are my preferred dies. I would definitely like to apply a light crimp to the ammo when loading for the AR.

Simple solution - send a couple of cases to Lee Precision, along with a check for $29, and have them make a custom "factory crimp" die for you. Takes about 3 weeks.