Conversion to 300 AAC BLACKOUT reamer

[rsilvers]

PTG is making a reamer which cuts the complete chamber except for the shoulder so it will not increase headspace. Generally, this will lengthen the throat and ensure the diameter is not too small.

This is the same idea as converting a 223 to 5.56mm chamber or a 6.8 SAAMI to 6.8 SPC-II chamber.

They will have a match one for bolt actions and one with a little more space for ARs to feed easier.

[jacack]

what is the blackout?

[rsilvers]

It is the version of 30-221 Fireball which has been submitted to SAAMI by Remington and AAC as the new standard.

www.300aacblackout.com

Remington is making ammo for it in large quantities and at good prices starting real soon now.

[Hoser]

what is the blackout?

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4361

[rsilvers]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=516732

You can't just ream out an existing chamber. Doing so would alter the headspace which is something you can't fix as that would cause problems with the gas tube length.

All of which is moot cause the 300 Blk is the same thing as a 300 Whisper. The Blk is just a saami standardized 300 whisper.

You can ream out an existing chamber. You can do it with a normal reamer being careful to not increase headspace, or you can do it with a special reamer as discussed in this thread. Further, 300 AAC BLACKOUT is not the same as CIP 300 Whisper(TM).

There is more freebore in 300 AAC BLACKOUT, which means if you load ammo to max pressure for each, you will get more velocity from 300 AAC BLACKOUT. It also means if you load ammo to be max pressure in 300 AAC BLACKOUT, and then shoot that ammo in 300 Whisper, you will likely have additional pressure.

[sha-ul]

PTG is making a reamer which cuts the complete chamber except for the shoulder so it will not increase headspace. Generally, this will lengthen the throat and ensure the diameter is not too small.

This is the same idea as converting a 223 to 5.56mm chamber or a 6.8 SAAMI to 6.8 SPC-II chamber.

They will have a match one for bolt actions and one with a little more space for ARs to feed easier.

do you know anyone with this conversion reamer,& any idea how much it should run for the touch up?

[rsilvers]

There is a guy on silencertalk who ordered one and said he would charge $50 plus shipping.

[sha-ul]

There is a guy on silencertalk who ordered one and said he would charge $50 plus shipping.

Got a link?

[rsilvers]

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=64747&hilit=reamer

[Spook]

Thanks :smile: now instead of being able to sell them a barrel, I can compete for who rechambers whisper barrels most inexpen$ively! ...just what I needed, more tool inventory to help me make less money.Brilliant.

[rsilvers]

I would like to know how many barrels exist. I am guessing 3000?

[Titleiiredneck]

In what, whisper or blackout?

[rsilvers]

Whisper, 300 Fireball, and 300-221.

BLACKOUT there is about 1000 barrels.

[Titleiiredneck]

ALOT more than 3k, i have and have had atleast 9 over the last 5 years. 1 from GAP, 3 from spook, 2 from noveske, 2 from a local, and getting spook to build me another one in the next week on a howa.

My guess, over 20k i know of atleast 9 smiths who make them on a regular basis for customers. But I will never own a blackout for 3 reasons, 1) I have a shitload of brass and can make brass without reaming my match chamber 2) the blackout offers nothing over my chamber now 3) it's a "AAC" product.

[sha-ul]

Thanks :smile: now instead of being able to sell them a barrel, I can compete for who rechambers whisper barrels most inexpen$ively! ...just what I needed, more tool inventory to help me make less money.Brilliant.

do you have one of the conversion reamers? if so , how what do you charge to touch up a brand new unmounted Savage bbl?

[Titleiiredneck]

do you have one of the conversion reamers? if so , how what do you charge to touch up a brand new unmounted Savage bbl?

I dont think spooky doo does "yet", I belive he was bieng a smarty pants about having more work for less money now:wink: May wana send him a pm.

[Spook]

do you have one of the conversion reamers? if so , how what do you charge to touch up a brand new unmounted Savage bbl?

OK, market research needs to know, Why do you want to rechamber? :confused:

[alorton]

OK, market research needs to know, Why do you want to rechamber? :confused:

I assume it would be to fire factory ammo without concerns of less freebore causing pressure issues. I had considered it but my 300FB Noveske is supposed to be within spec for the 300 BLK anyway.

[alorton]

ALOT more than 3k, i have and have had atleast 9 over the last 5 years. 1 from GAP, 3 from spook, 2 from noveske, 2 from a local, and getting spook to build me another one in the next week on a howa.

My guess, over 20k i know of atleast 9 smiths who make them on a regular basis for customers. But I will never own a blackout for 3 reasons, 1) I have a shitload of brass and can make brass without reaming my match chamber 2) the blackout offers nothing over my chamber now 3) it's a "AAC" product.

From what I've read I would have to agree there are more than 3000 of them around. JD has been making the Whisper for a while and if you count Model 1 300 Fireball setups you may be looking closer to 10,000. Obviously this is a WAG on my part.

Titleiiredneck, what is your beef with AAC?

[rsilvers]

I assume it would be to fire factory ammo without concerns of less freebore causing pressure issues. I had considered it but my 300FB Noveske is supposed to be within spec for the 300 BLK anyway.

Yes, evidently Noveske, on their own and before 300 AAC BLACKOUT was known to them, also decided to increase throat dimensions over their earlier barrels.

[Titleiiredneck]

Titleiiredneck, what is your beef with AAC?

I dont like Remington, I dont like when small companys are taken over my larger ones, and I dont like when I pay and order a product that IS IN STOCK and 3 months later I ask when the arrival time will be and find out that it wasnot and have to get my $$ back after waiting over 90 days. Thats why I dont like AAC :)

[rsilvers]

That has happened sometimes when the item did not pass final inspection or testing but the salesperson 'knew' all the parts where there. It was a result of being bigger than a few guys making stuff by hand but not big enough to have a good inventory control system. AAC has adopted Remington's inventory control system and all parts and bill-of-materials are tracked and only when something is really done does it go 'in stock.'

It works both ways as we have 300 AAC BLACKOUT Model-700 barrels in the building that people would love to get but because the thread protectors are not screwed on yet, they are not 'in stock' in the computer because they are not assembled. That means that the website won't even take an order for them and the sales people will tell people they are not in stock. They are scheduled to be assembled (by screwing on the thread protector) but it has not yet happened.

Sorry about that.

[sha-ul]

OK, market research needs to know, Why do you want to rechamber? :confused:

It's a new Shilen bbl, based upon what I have read here, to avoid potential pressure issues, the throat must be tweaked slightly. by doing so I can shoot the Remington factory loads without issues & still be able to hand load as well.

[Spook]

It's a new Shilen bbl, based upon what I have read here, to avoid potential pressure issues, the throat must be tweaked slightly. by doing so I can shoot the Remington factory loads without issues & still be able to hand load as well.

You dont think after the trigger debacle Remington is stupid enough to load ammo thats going to destroy firearms and disfigure users do you?
Remember Remington is run by lawyers and accountants now and they know whats good for you.

[rsilvers]

The ammo is designed to not exceed max pressure in 300 AAC BLACKOUT barrels. If you want to shoot full power 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo in your wildcat chamber, you should ream it or else pressure may go above the 55,000 psi limit.

Probably some ammo companies will make ammo designed to shoot in either 300 Whisper(TM) or 300 AAC BLACKOUT chambers. Such a load is possible, but would be lower velocity - sort of like some of the 6.8 SPC ammo that is lower velocity.

[Spook]

The ammo is designed to not exceed max pressure in 300 AAC BLACKOUT barrels. If you want to shoot full power 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo in your wildcat chamber, you should ream it or else pressure may go above the 55,000 psi limit.

Probably some ammo companies will make ammo designed to shoot in either 300 Whisper(TM) or 300 AAC BLACKOUT chambers. Such a load is possible, but would be lower velocity - sort of like some of the 6.8 SPC ammo that is lower velocity.

Good point, being Remington brass it may not hold up and a case rupture "may" occur.

[rsilvers]

We gave a lot of special attention to the brass. It was annealed in the neck and left unpolished for visual verification. The shoulder was kept as large as possible for headspace. The brass was tested for cracking under various conditions. The primer pockets were paid attention to to reduce enlargement for reloading. It was reload-tested for 10 cycles.

[Spook]

...and yet you have concern for breaking the 55,000 psi barrier, something I do with regularity with Lake City formed to 223Ack.
I should expect it to be heavier and dimensionally thicker than say .221 or .17 fireball brass when we see it?

[rsilvers]

...and yet you have concern for breaking the 55,000 psi barrier, something I do with regularity with Lake City formed to 223Ack.
I should expect it to be heavier and dimensionally thicker than say .221 or .17 fireball brass when we see it?

This same brass is used in SAAMI proof ammo at over 70,000 psi but member companies will not load this ammo over normal pressure guidelines. In my own hand-loading, I only load to what I have reason to believe is 55,000 psi.

I don't know how the thickness compares to 221 Fireball brass. I believe it holds 25.1 grains of water to overflow, if that helps.

[Titleiiredneck]

That has happened sometimes when the item did not pass final inspection or testing but the salesperson 'knew' all the parts where there. It was a result of being bigger than a few guys making stuff by hand but not big enough to have a good inventory control system. AAC has adopted Remington's inventory control system and all parts and bill-of-materials are tracked and only when something is really done does it go 'in stock.'

It works both ways as we have 300 AAC BLACKOUT Model-700 barrels in the building that people would love to get but because the thread protectors are not screwed on yet, they are not 'in stock' in the computer because they are not assembled. That means that the website won't even take an order for them and the sales people will tell people they are not in stock. They are scheduled to be assembled (by screwing on the thread protector) but it has not yet happened.

Sorry about that.

And again, when I PAY for a item that I am told is in stock "especially a NFA item since the wait is so long" I expect said item. So shouldnt aac have done basic math and figured out the lead time on a product? Hey 0+0=0 and $0.00 ;)

Oh and on the remington barrels have you told customers that cases may not eject unless they also install a diffrent extractor? Cause there will be some pissed off customers if you dont, just sayin:wink:

[rsilvers]

Yes, sorry - you should have never had to go through that. I know what waiting and not getting anything is like. I had five Shrikes on deposit for a few years. But yes, not the same thing as he never said it was in stock - but then again, no one expected to wait that long. Finally I bailed.

Our Model-7 rifles use Fireball parts in the action. In your experience how much a difference do the Fireball parts make over 223 parts?

[Titleiiredneck]

Yes, sorry - you should have never had to go through that. I know what waiting and not getting anything is like. I had five Shrikes on deposit for a few years. But yes, not the same thing as he never said it was in stock - but then again, no one expected to wait that long. Finally I bailed.

Our Model-7 rifles use Fireball parts in the action. In your experience how much a difference do the Fireball parts make over 223 parts?

Alot if done right, but hey if someone can find a fireball action then that may make a diffrence but I doubt everyone will and when people who convert a 223,204 or what not to this caliber and cases start to fall off the boltface then yall may have problems. I have had 3, "300/whatever ya wana call it today" chambered rem's over the years all failed at this except for one that I converted from 221 that was luckily found at a pawnshop. It would fail every now and then but rarely. Only action's that I know of that willnot fail in this case "pun intended" is the howa 1500 and cz.

It's just simply too short of a case for the rem 700 action unless you modify the bolt to fix issues. So the question is why modify a bolt on a rem when I can get a better reciver with the mods done at the factory for under $350 and chamber a new/better blank for less then what you ask for a 300/whatever barrel?

[Spook]

This same brass is used in SAAMI proof ammo at over 70,000 psi but member companies will not load this ammo over normal pressure guidelines. In my own hand-loading, I only load to what I have reason to believe is 55,000 psi.

I don't know how the thickness compares to 221 Fireball brass. I believe it holds 25.1 grains of water to overflow, if that helps.

Have the pressure stats been made available for the new whisper?

[rsilvers]

300 AAC BLACKOUT is 55,000 MAP by SAAMI method.

The latest version of QuickLoad has 300 AAC BLACKOUT in it, I am told - though I have not seen that yet.

I measured some fired cases in an AR chamber and they held an average of 25.1 grains of H2O to overflow.

[Spook]

Explains why the brass is left unpolished :smile:

[rsilvers]

That is why the military does not allow polishing. Consumers, I am told, want it polished and associate polished ammo with premium ammo. I specified unpolished, waterproof primers, etc.

[Titleiiredneck]

Still wanting to know about the question I asked you before, will your aac fodder work in a whisper chamber? Or if someone shoots it, will it chamber and screw up their gun with pressure problems? If so I suggest you make that well known since it may be a bad idea not to:wink:

[rsilvers]

300 AAC BLACKOUT has the same headspace as 221 Fireball.

As far as I know, and the drawings I have seen so far, 30-221 and 300 Whisper(TM) also have the same headspace as 221 Fireball.

Because a Wildcat has no standard, we cannot know what your chamber is like, and so cannot say it is ok to shoot it. Your gun maker has to determine if it is safe to fire 300 AAC BLACKOUT in their gun as they know the chamber dimensions. Noveske has said that his most recent 300 Fireball barrels, after a certain serial number range, were safe to use.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=300blk&cat=168&page=1&search=&since=&status=

[Titleiiredneck]

300 AAC BLACKOUT has the same headspace as 221 Fireball.

As far as I know, and the drawings I have seen so far, 30-221 and 300 Whisper(TM) also have the same headspace as 221 Fireball.

Because a Wildcat has no standard, we cannot know what your chamber is like, and so cannot say it is ok to shoot it. Your gun maker has to determine if it is safe to fire 300 AAC BLACKOUT in their gun as they know the chamber dimensions. Noveske has said that his most recent 300 Fireball barrels, after a certain serial number range, were safe to use.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=300blk&cat=168&page=1&search=&since=&status=

Hey you just need to make it known so no one gets hurt. I would hate to see someone get the wrong info and crap their gun and or substain a injury dude. When you go into production of "wildcat" ammo, epsecially when it was moreless designed by ssk and not to their specs which everyone has run a basic standard on for years it can run into problems, not saying it WILL but just COULD happen.

Neverless if the subsonic ammo rem produces can be fired in most "300/whatever you wana call it today" chambers then thats great! More people in the whisper the better and mabye some real production rifles in the future will come of it from more makers than just remington.

[thehouseproduct]

So is this just a throating reamer thAt has a stop?

[tp555]

No. Reamer cuts the case wider by around .004" and the throat deeper.The shoulder flutes are dull and don't cut.Thats the part that is used for head space gauging.

[robrob]

PTG charged my card for the conversion reamer so hopefully they'll ship it soon.

[TCCrewchief76]

So is this just a throating reamer thAt has a stop?

As I understand it, it cuts the throat deeper as well as giving the brass a little more room radially for chambering. The headspace does not change, as the reamer is designed to butt up against the existing shoulder and not cut it.

Kevin

[L1A1Rocker]

PTG charged my card for the conversion reamer so hopefully they'll ship it soon.

If you don't mind, how much did they charge you? I spoke with a lady there yesterday and she told me two more weeks but could not tell me how much.

[robrob]

PTG charged $141.20 total for the conversion reamer.

[robrob]

The conversion reamer arrived today.

[L1A1Rocker]

Just got back today from Christmas with the family. No UPS deliveries and I had my mail held at the post office. Need to make some calls tomarrow and see where my reamer is.

[HOG GUNNER]

With Chamber pressure at 21,100 psi ? I feel if you make a 300 AAC M1 carb round cheaper than the 30 carb ammo on the market now. You could open a hole new market for this round, and run it in the platform it was made for 30 years ago. With a ream and a little bolt work any M1 carbine could fire this round loaded to an (OAL) of 1.680 with 110gr RNFMJ or 110gr RNSP. and be legal to hunt with. I like hunting with my hand me down carbine from pop in .300 fireball. I would much rather have had it on any of my deployments than any M4. Even at close range 5.56 had all it could do to punch threw block or mud huts. My fireball will make dust out of block at 100 yards with FMJ.

[Idge]

At this time I don't have time to reload. So I bought some Corbon 300 Whisper ammo to shoot through my 300 Fireball. I had to put a carbine length spring in my full length tube to make them to eject out of my 16" 300 Fireball (model 1). Then I got a hold of some cheaper $20 a box 300blk ammo. (Compared to $40 a box Corbon 300 Whisper,) and they chambered and ejected perfect and seemed just as accurate as the 300 Whisper to me. Go gauge said go. So 40 rounds of BLK no fails to feed, shoot or eject. I think the 300 Whispers were quieter.(no suppressor) Maybe do to the less depth of the 220gr. bullet? Does anyone think think the less depth would mean slightly better accuracy too? You can tell that the shorter BLK feeds quicker/smoother. Which factory220 loads do your reloads resemble more? Corbon or Rem?:uzi2: