Redding Re-sizing issues?

[rumlover]

I've been loading 220 SMKs at 1.98" OAL and 240 SMKs at 2.0" OAL and some of the rounds are getting stuck in the chamber, not allowing the BCG to close completely. After looking at the most recent round that got stuck, I don't think the bullet is hitting the lands, but instead the shoulder is too far forward.

Has anyone else had trouble with redding dies not pushing the shoulder back far enough? Is there an adjustment to the die I don't know about?

Also, with the 240s, the round is getting stuck in the seater die. As I lower the ram, the bullet is being pulled back out of the case by as much as 0.100".

Thoughts?

[TCCrewchief76]

You need more neck tension if the bullets are pulling out. Is your ram camming over on the die when you resize?

Kevin

[amafrank]

Are you sure that its not the necks stopping the chambering? What brass are you using? Some types have thicker brass that interferes. Otherwise I'd check on what the chief asked, are you getting the round far enough into the die?

Frank

[TCCrewchief76]

One more thing: do you have the JD Jones chamber that takes 1.4" case lengths, or the 1.355" case lengths? If you can't close you BCG, that might be the cause.

Respectfully,

Kevin

[Scalce]

It sounds more like a neck thickness issue.

My redding sizing die bumps the should just enough when my Rockchucker cams over.

[rumlover]

Yea, the ram is camming over when I re-size the brass. The brass is mixed, mostly lake city.

I loaded 20 rounds last night and took them to the range today. 4 of the 20 would chamber without assistance. 7 more had to be forced in with the forward assist. The rest would stop short of chambering. I pulled them out and found marks on the shoulders of most.

The chamber was supposedly cut by spook, so I don't think it's the 1.4" chamber. Also, I tried loading the same rounds in a encore barrel and they wouldn't chamber in it either. It came from virgin valley several years ago.

[flashhole]

Whose shell holder are you using? You might try a Redding shell holder if you don't already have one. I've had Redding dies that were on the long side and didn't bump the shoulder back as much as it should. Keep in mind Redding makes the shell holder set that allows different sizing depths when using their dies. You would think it would be universal with SAMMI specs but you can still run into problems. I've taken shell holders and lapped material off the top to allow the FL seat die to move the shoulder back a couple of thousandths and that allowed for reliable chambering. I've also lapped the bottom of the die with the same results.

[rumlover]

The shell holders at made by Lee. I think I have an RCBS that I'll try tomorrow as well as some corbon factory loaded ammo buried somewhere. I'll take some measurements off the factory stuff before and after trying to chamber it in the AR.

I'm also going to have to try some different loads. 8.8 grains of AA9 were pushing 220 SMK's past the sound barrier. Picked up some Lil Gun on the way home, so if I can get the chambering issue resolved, I'll load up some rounds with lil gun.

[sha-ul]

is this in a bolt gun, or semi auto?
is it possible you need to run the brass through a small base die?

[rumlover]

It's an AR.

Tried the Corbon Factory loads last night, they wouldn't chamber completely either. Going to pull a few pills and trim the brass down further after resizing using the RCBS shell holders v/s the lee holders I used last week.

[robrob]

Since it sounds like a shoulder issue you're probably going to have to trim either the top of the shell holder or base of the resizing die as suggested above. If you have a belt sander you can use that to take a tiny bit of metal off and load a cartridge and test, then repeat until the rounds chamber and extract correctly.

[sha-ul]

maybe it would be prudent to cast the chamber,& see if it is cut correctly

[mstarling]

I have a Paladin Machine Services bbl. I had him make an ammo chamber check gauge for me when he made the barrel.

My LC brass has been trimmed to 1.355".

I have Redding dies and shell holder.

I have to size fired brass in the Redding FL die, and then run it through an RCBS small base .223 die in order to get perfect fit into the chamber check gauge.

[Scalce]

I have a Paladin Machine Services bbl. I had him make an ammo chamber check gauge for me when he made the barrel.

My LC brass has been trimmed to 1.355".

I have Redding dies and shell holder.

I have to size fired brass in the Redding FL die, and then run it through an RCBS small base .223 die in order to get perfect fit into the chamber check gauge.

+1

I don't have a barrel from tp555 but I have the same issue with mostly LC brass.

The small base 223 dies fixed the issue.

I also have a chamber guage which has been a lifesaver in this caliber.

[rumlover]

When you run the brass into the 223 small base die (I assume it's the sizer die...) how far are you pushing it in?

[TCCrewchief76]

There is a semi-related thread being discussed right now with problems of ejection. Perhaps you two have the same problem? Same barrel from the same person. As posted, he'll make good on it at no charge to you. He's just waiting on a new reamer.

Kevin

[rumlover]

what's the thread title?

[TCCrewchief76]

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4556

[rumlover]

Sounds similar, but different results. When mine does chamber and fire, it will eject but won't pick up the next round. Hopefully I can play with the brass tomorrow and verify it isn't user error.

[TCCrewchief76]

My apologies; I misunderstood you. If your rifle is short-stroking, you need more port pressure. AA1680 will fit the bill nicely in this regard.

Kevin

[robrob]

I agree on the short-stroking. Changing powder, opening the gas port, using a lighter buffer and buffer spring will all help.

[rumlover]

OK, I went back and reworked the brass, trimmed them to 1.348", and loaded 8 rounds. 4 got stuck, 4 chambered. When I pulled them out and compared, I found that those that got stuck had gouges in the brass from the shoulder to about 1/8-3/16" above the case head. The marks were all the way around the case.

SO...I measured the case at the point where the marks stopped. The cases that chambered were 0.373", the ones that didn't were 0.375". All the cases were the same just behind the shoulder at 0.362".

Also, I loaded each of these with 220 SMKs at 2.09"...0.1" longer than the previous loads where I thought the bullet was hitting the lands and causing the stoppages. Now I know that isn't the case. All the bullets from these 8 had no gouges from the lands.

It appears I'll need to pick up a small base die, switch to a different brand of brass, or have the chamber cut a little wider/polished.

Also, on the short stroking, I'm thinking that the additional pressure needed to push the BCG back may be the cause v/s the charge.

Any thoughts on my conclusion? Is there anything I'm not considering?

[N310toN170]

I'm assuming the use of a .223 small base body sizing die may help in this case, any thoughts?

I have a M1S upper that seems to eat most anything and a Noveske that's pretty fickle. I had just always made the assumption that it was due to neck thickness issues.

I'll be keeping a closer eye on this thread, if anyone could chime in on the use of the small base sizing dies.

As always, much appreciated!

[Scalce]

I'll be keeping a closer eye on this thread, if anyone could chime in on the use of the small base sizing dies.


We already have chimed in and it does help in alot of chambers.

Try to borrow a SB die from someone or just buy one and see if it helps on your Noveske.

If it doesn't, you can always sell the die.

[rumlover]

223 small base dies inbound from Midway USA.

If I shove the 300 all the way into the 223 die, will the case mouth get jammed into the 223 neck and shrink the mouth?

[Scalce]

223 small base dies inbound from Midway USA.

If I shove the 300 all the way into the 223 die, will the case mouth get jammed into the 223 neck and shrink the mouth?

No

I can have my RCBS 223 SB die screwed down to make my Rock Chucker cam over and it still does not deform the mouth.

The brass is trimmed to 1.355" and the case holder is RCBS also.

I will just do an initial size using the SB die on my future 223 cases before forming and trimming.

[rumlover]

OK, so while I was waiting on the small base dies, I took some trimmed, re-sized cases, put them in the chamber, and let the BCG fly. Almost all extracted. Those that extracted easily were then loaded and taken to the range this afternoon.

The rifle cycled fine for the first 6 rounds, the last 5, not so much. When I cleared the chamber, I noticed a lot of brown soot on the YHM handguard. As I inspected further, there was a lot of oil on the barrel around the gas block and the gas block was no longer seated in the same place. It had moved forward about 1/16".

SO.... It appears the problem is 2 fold. First, the cycling issue is probably a combination of a misaligned or improperly fitted/pinned gas block and the extra pressure needed to extract regularly sized brass. Second, the chambering issue seemed to go away once I sized the brass by allowing the BCG to fall on the empty brass (only talking about 0.001-0.003" at the base). This will likely go away with the small base dies. If it doesn't, then I'll look for the die dimensions on newer 300/221, 300 Whisper, 300 Fireball, or 300 BLK offerings and compare it to freshly fired brass dimensions.

Thoughts?

[rumlover]

Got the 223 small base dies in today and ran some brass through it. If I had checked the case length before loading, I think it would have solved the problem. Unfortunately, in my haste I ran the brass through the 223 SB die and then loaded up 8 rounds. 6 chambered and ejected fairly easily (but not as easily as I expected compared to my other ARs). the other 2 didn't chamber completely, but still came out easier that in the past. When I measured the cases that had been run through the 223 SB dies, but not loaded, they had all extended from 1.348" to 1.360-1.365". I should have checked that before loading up those 8.

OH well...

On a side note. Although I bought this upper second hand from a guy on the hide, it was built by Spook here on QB. From the first questions I sent him 'til now, he has been very helpful and consistently offered to fix the issues if I'd send the upper to him. It's not often that someone will stand by their product like that. It says a lot about his character both as a craftsman and a person. I hope you guys take that into account when you look for a new toy.

I'll check back in on this thread after I get the upper back from Spook and post some pics if you guys are interested...nothing special, just another ar.

Out here...Rum