Sheared off Carrier key, bullet stuck in barrel. help analyze

[thenodnarb]

Here are the pertinent facts:
I'm new to the 300 whisper. I've got a 16" barrel with the gas port in the pistol position. I was playing around with really light loads seeing how quiet I could get it.
The load that I fired when the problem occured:
168gr BTHP speer "Hot core"
7 grains of 2400
CCI 400 primer
PMC brass

Most of my brass is lake city and winchester. PMC seemed to be within spec when I measured the necks before loading bullets.

I have an A2 stock with a carbine buffer spring and a rifle buffer with all the weights removed.

I had previously in the day fired the same loads with as little as 5 grains of 2400. It cycled fine and even locked back on empty. I had shot 30 plus rounds of the above load(with 7 grains of 2400) on a previous day with basically no problems. I'm having some magazine issues but I think that is unrelated.

http://a.imageshack.us/img37/4513/shearedcarrierkey.jpg


2 questions:
Why did the bullet get stuck?
Why did the carrier key shear rather than just cycle?

I have my theories but I was hoping someone with more experience could help me understand this failure.

EDIT:
additional question: Whats the best way to get the bullet out? Pound it out? Shoot it out with a bulletless load? Should I pound it out from the back or the front? The bullet is stuck about 3" into the bore.

[i8asquirrel]

Dont try and shoot it out ,you could bulge barrel. b urst barrel.....I would push it out from the rear. The bullet is already formed to your bore, I have had bullets stick in my 308 win. while working down sub loads and was able to push out with no damage to bore. your set up sounds just like my whisper, ( have not used any 2400) i have been using 1680 nat the advice of some of the guys here. Good luck

[thenodnarb]

well I've been trying to pound it out. It is REALLY stuck in there. I've had to pound out squibs before in a .45 and it was difficult but not THIS difficult. I even tried from the muzzle carefully so as not to damage the crown. I realized after trying a few times from either direction that there is obviously a bullet 3" past the chamber but there is also an obstruction about 3" from the end of the chamber as well. It COULD be just the several cleaning patches I ran down from either end trying not to mar the barrel, but worst case it could be two squibs. I think I would have noticed the first squib.

Crap. My only hope now is that the charge was so light that the carrier key is the only victim. Hope I didn't fubar my barrel. Its pretty heavy and doesn't look bulged but ya never know.

But seriously this thing wont budge. Currently I'm trying to use a cleaning rod from a mosin nagant. I've already ruined the rod a bit from pounding but I can sacrifice a cleaning rod for my barrel. The rod fits the bore pretty well but is loose enough to fit a patch around the end.
This really sucks. Any help on ideas would be appreciated. Is there any other way to get this thing out? Could a gunsmith get it out properly? What technique would he use?

EDIT: the more I think about this and the incident leading up to the failure, the more I think there could be several bullets in the bore. I was experimenting with some 220grain nosler partitions just prior to shooting this load. It was only around 6 grains of 2400 behind the 220grain nosler bullet. This load had several issues: I would get a failure to eject(a stovepipe), and the buffer spring made a strange noise. I cannot definitively recall rounds impacting on target with this load.
There is about a 6 or 8" long section of the barrel between the obstructions. They could be just lined right up in there back to back, expanded all to hell! I'm lucky to be unscathed! I guess all the pressure from these really light loads were venting out the gas tube! This could explain the strange noise in the buffer(overgassing).

So if I have 4 or 5 bullets lined up in the bore, what kind of gunsmith am I going to have to find that can remove such a cluster*%&^? Pounding them out has got to be out. Perhaps a big press, or drilling them out somehow?

[tp555]

Doesn't look good.You could heat the barrel to melt out the lead but the copper jackets are still a problem.Had a customer that put 5 rounds in after a squib load and it didn't work out.Put a rod in from both ends and see how much is clogged.If you can dissolve the copper you have a chance.

[BWE Firearms]

Ten to one you have multiple bullets in your bore. One bullet you can drive out with a rod. More then one bullet you just compact the bullets together making things worse. In a case like yours I usually recomend just getting a new barrel because of the cost of removing the bullets and the fact that there is a very good chance your barrel has a ring in it it is cheeper to replace the barrel. I usually only recommend removing the bullets if the barrel is irreplacable because of collectors value. I am more then happy to do the work for you but I just want you to be aware that we might remove the bullets and the barrel is no good.

This is a great example of making sure your bullets have left the bore after every shot when shooting light loads.

[Titleiiredneck]

nevermind, just get a new barrel!

[thenodnarb]

Just about what I thought. The only weird thing is that I was pretty sure I was getting a boom every time unless I was mistaking the sound from the action. When the "final" one was fired, it was an obvious click..no boom, then all jammed up. I've had a couple squibs before in both pistols and 1 in an ar 15. I figured I would notice a squib.


I measured the outside diameter of the barrel. everything looks normal except for 1 spot way ahead of where I believe the rearmost bullet to be where it is a few thousandths fatter and appears to be only in one direction. If the barrel is full of squibs, it didn't make a difference on the outside diameter of the barrel except for possibly in that one spot.

I'll probably replace the barrel, but just to satisfy my interest, I'd like to see if I can melt the bullets out. How would one go about that?

EDIT:
What about a copper solvent? Ammonia? I could let it soak in the barrel for a day or so and see if it loosens up the jackets. That may cause them to come out easier. If I do get the bullets out, how do I test the barrel to see if it is ruined?

[i8asquirrel]

problem is if there are multiple bullets stuck and they have an air space between them when you try and push one you compress the air space. this takes an almost impossible amount of energy to move them all. I hate to say it but your barrel Is probably toast.( at least you didnt get hurt) I have seen a picture at my gunsmiths shop of a pistol with 11 projectiles stuck in the bore, the dude only realized a problem when the 12 round stuck in the forcing cone of his revolver....sorry this happened to ya , It does suck.

[thenodnarb]

not the end of the world.
...
I've heard of muzzle loaders with a rod that screw into the projectile stuck in the barrel and pull the sucker out. I wonder if that would work.

Sorry for keeping this thing going. I just want to exercise some creativity in problem solving. See I really had nothing better to do today than shoot the whisper, and now its toast. So Now I have nothing better to do than try and fix it. :smile:

[buffetdestroyer]

I concur that there are multiple bullets in the barrel.

The full pressure of both loads never went anywhere except to the carrier key. This is the pressure that the bullet would have used to fly out the barrel, but it was corralled to your key and sheared it off.

Your barrel is not likely going to be very accurate even if you get the bullets out. The pressure that sheared off the carrier key also worked its mayhem on the inside of your barrel. I wouldn't trust it as you may have an interior bulge that hasn't quite cracked the outside of the barrel yet, but may over time.
________
Ferrari 360 Specifications (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_360)

[thenodnarb]

.......................:frown:

[dick]

I have had luck with KROIL OIL and Doll Rods, made of hard wood or brass. Never had multiples stuck.

[thenodnarb]

I decided to pull off the barrel to make it easier just incase I attempted to melt out the bullets or what not.
There is obvious bulging under the gas block because I had to beat it to get it to move. In fact I'm going to have to cut off the gas block. I had to cut the gas tube as well in order to get the barrel nut off.

So the barrel is toast. thanks for all that offered suggestions. I'll have to get a new barrel when I have more money.

I think I may mount the barrel in my reloading room as a reminder :grin:

[Titleiiredneck]

You may be able to have someone salvage it and make a real short sbr:D I bet spook would be willing to try if he has nothing better to do. How about a 4" 300w ar upper lol :uzi2:

[buffetdestroyer]

You may be able to have someone salvage it and make a real short sbr:D I bet spook would be willing to try if he has nothing better to do. How about a 4" 300w ar upper lol :uzi2:

I did the same thing shooting subs out of a .223 except I shot a full power load afterward and it was obvious what happened as the crack and bulge blew out in front of the gas block. Luckily my suppressor and I weren't damaged.

I had it cut to 10.5" and it worked fine as a shorty, but my overconfidence cost me a great shooting barrel.

It sucks, but subsonic shooting has this as a risk. If you don't see the impact, take the time to dismantle the upper and check the barrel. It is an expensive mistake and it only takes a minute to check. Also, give it a few seconds before cracking it open as hangfires can cause just as much damage if opened prematurely!

I learned the hard way too!
________
Lincoln K-Series Picture (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Lincoln_K-series)

[i8asquirrel]

when I work up a load I carry a one piece cleaning rod, after each shot (if I dont see the impact) I lock open the bolt and slide the rod down the muzzle making sure the bore is clear. Its faster than breaking down upper to look through bore........

[BWE Firearms]

As bad as it is if you want it to make a mice display/reminder mill a little less then 1/2 the barrel away were the bullets are stuck. It looks realy good. I have done this to a couple of guns for people.

[alorton]

6 grains of 2400 with a 220 grain bullet is almost certainly what got you in trouble. I use 8.0 grains of 2400 behind 208gr Amaxs and thety are subsonic.

I think this is why using a chronograph is so important developing subsonic loads. If the report isn't as quiet as you expect and you keep going lighter it can lead to stuck bullets pretty easily.

[sha-ul]

As bad as it is if you want it to make a nice display/reminder mill a little less then 1/2 the barrel away were the bullets are stuck. It looks realy good. I have done this to a couple of guns for people.


do this& post pictures:grin:

[mak91]

thenodnarb, Is there any sign that the carrier key impacted the rear of the receiver?