00 Fireball/Whisper dies - I compared both.

[rsilvers]

I started with Redding 300-221 dies because I read that "SSK dies were expensive."

I was not really happy with the Redding dies because the thin shaft on the expander seems easy to bend, and the crimp ring did not see adjustable to work with my cases that were less than max OAL but still in spec.

I ordered SSK/Hornady Whisper dies and did not ask the price. They charged $76.96 including delivery by priority mail. They came two days later. I don't see how this can be called expensive for a 3-die set.

I like them much more because:

1. The expander is massively beefy. There is no possible way it can bend.
2. The bullet seater is very adjustable and it can crimp anything.
3. It seems to make the case body about 0.001 smaller which should help reliability.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8513/mg6237.jpg

Redding on left, Hornady/SSK on right.

I recommend the SSK dies.

[3006mv]

I am assuming the SSK dies are for their .300 Whisper chamber? And thus the difference in dimension. No doubt that is a beefy expander. Looks like a very good quality die you can tell a lot went into engineering/designing that. Can you show a picture of the seating die? That is comparable or even equal to the Redding dies two die set. Thanks for posting

[Colohunter]

Thanks for showing the difference. I agree that the price difference isn't that much compared to the Redding set.

[txjm]

Thanks for the pics
I purchased a Redding 300x221 die close to 20 years ago and it has served me well. I used it to load for silhouette and have run thousands of rounds through it. I purchased it because of the price difference between the ssk and redding. Up until that time I only purchased RCBS dies. The workmanship and the care in manufacturing the Redding dies convinced me to switch over to Redding and I have bought few other dies since then. I have wandered and tried hornady, lee, lyman and dillion over the years but am usually disapointed in fit and finish. They all seem to work fine but for only a few dollars more I will purchase the redding.
Maybe my time in a machine shop lets me appreciate the extra time spent on the reddings vs other but I like them. Everyone has their favorites and they all work well. Enjoy. Don't worry about the wimpy looking decapping rod, most of the dies I have are very similiar. I have only bent one and it was my fault. I was playing around with wildcat mockups.
I have also been very impressed with the Redding customer service. When I was looking for 300-221 dies back in the dark ages I called Redding. The engineer that drew up the drawing on the 300-221 for redding actually called me, sent me a drawing(probably have it somewhere) and assured me that the die would for for my contender. I have since called and had the engineers check on reamer prints vs die dimensions on a 6x45. They must be a relatively small outfit and they are incredable to work with.
TXJM

[rsilvers]

I bend pins all the time and it is always my fault. However, it is possible to design one which cannot be bent such as the SSK/Hornady.

I have read many times that people say Redding are the best and have the nicest finish, but I have never noticed that. I am not sure which of my dies are the nicest but I would tend to think Hornady then RCBS then Redding. I have many of each.

[Alleycat]

It's kind of odd seeing junior member beside your name. :welcome:

[Expatriot]

Does the Redding set come with an expander die for necking up 221 brass? A friend just bought a set.

Personally I use the Hornady New Dimension dies which do come with the expander die and have been very happy with them.

Hello ......... Mr Silvers. :welcome:

[Hoser]

Does the Redding set come with an expander die for necking up 221 brass? A friend just bought a set.

Yes they do. Or at least they should.

[WhisperFan]

It's kind of odd seeing junior member beside your name. :welcome:

No kidding !!! :wink:

[Artful]

Does the Redding set come with an expander die for necking up 221 brass? A friend just bought a set.

Personally I use the Hornady New Dimension dies which do come with the expander die and have been very happy with them.

Hello ......... Mr Silvers. :welcome:


My Redding die came with two expander balls one for necking up from 22 to like 7mm - the other the standard tapered 30 cal which handles taking it from 7mm to 30 cal and all regular 30 cal sizing of the already formed cases.

[oregonshooter]

Well crud! I got all excited reading this and called SSK to order a set.

eeeeeent! They won't sell them unless you buy their barrels.

[Hoser]

They won't sell them unless you buy their barrels.

Now *that* is service with a smile and yet another great example of how far JD is willing to go to gain customers.

[oregonshooter]

Now *that* is service with a smile and yet another great example of how far JD is willing to go to gain customers.

Oh? He has bad rep for CS? I take it the dies are only sold by them?

[usmc1986]

My Redding set came with the 7mm and 30 cal expander as well.

[Fritzcat]

I got the Redding 2 Die Set and Forming Die and have shot 500 or so with no issues.

[coldbeerchief]

SSK won't sell you dies, brass, or anything else for that matter, UNLESS you buy/have one of their guns/uppers/barrels.

Poor business practice, if you ask me.

[Cira]

SSK won't sell you dies, brass, or anything else for that matter, UNLESS you buy/have one of their guns/uppers/barrels.

Poor business practice, if you ask me.

I had a recent run in with JD from SSK on this topic. His gear is way overpriced and in my opinion not as flexible as the 300/221 platform so I chose not to go with it. On top of being the most expensive by at least double on everything, he came off as a total prick when I tried to talk to him about it. Spend your money elsewhere with a 300/221 or Fireball barrel, Redding dies and surplus 223 cases.

[WhisperFan]

Does he sell the dies to someone with a TC 300 Whisper barrel? It is my understanding that Thompson Center sells barrels under contract from JD Jones through their custom shop.

Also - what if you bought a used upper, barrel, rifle? Is that good? Or dies it have to be new?

[rsilvers]

SSK won't sell you dies, brass, or anything else for that matter, UNLESS you buy/have one of their guns/uppers/barrels.

Poor business practice, if you ask me.

I called and ordered the dies and no one asked if I had their gun.

[SgtCottle]

I used to buy quite a few Hornady products until they started having all their quality control issues over the last two years. I have since fell in love with Reddings products. They are absolutely top notch and the service is excellent. You will never get a switch board when you call Redding either ... they have actual people that answer the phone right off the bat. I replaced numerous bent Hornady and RCBS decapping rods, but I have never bent any of my Forster or Reddings ones. That is a beefy looking expander rod though ... did the set come with a seperate die for decapping or does that have decapping pins that you can install in that massive rod? It sorta resembles the Lyman M dies ... they work great for expanding necks without over-working them.

I haven't had any dealings with SSK because of the reputation that they have developed around the shooting business. You can read on their site about how that all the 300/221 dies/barrels out there are "counterfiets" and how none of them should be allowed to "copy" their wildcat. After spending a couple hours researching the Whisper on their site and reading all their rants .... I decided that the majority was probably correct and took by business else where.

Sarg

[kanton]

Several years ago I ordered a Contender Barrel around Christmas time that JD said was "in stock". Several weeks later when I called to inquire about the order he stated that they did not like to ship during the holidays due to the temporary help that UPS hired then.

Needless to say I had my "300 Fireball" uppers made by a local gunsmith at a much lower cost than he quoted.

[shmily]

Where can I purchas these dies?

[Fritzcat]

I bought redding 2 die and a forming die for the 300 FIREBALL!!!!!! and am very satisfied and bought Lee for the 458 SOCOM for the expander for Lead Heavies then bought a Hornady set for the long Seating die for the long heavies and the expander ball for the jacketed bullets and expand smooth then flair for the lead heavies.

[Schlafftablett]

I haven't had any dealings with SSK because of the reputation that they have developed around the shooting business. You can read on their site about how that all the 300/221 dies/barrels out there are "counterfiets" and how none of them should be allowed to "copy" their wildcat. After spending a couple hours researching the Whisper on their site and reading all their rants .... I decided that the majority was probably correct and took by business else where.

You know, I realize that it's a little off topic and for that matter not 100% the same thing but if you ever happen by the USAF Armament Museum at Eglin AFB you'll see experimental 3 rounds on display there. They were designed in about 1970 for the IMP project and designated T1-T3. Those rounds were basically .221 Fireball necked up to .30 for use as a subsonic subgun round. Just saying. --ST

[SgtCottle]

You know, I realize that it's a little off topic and for that matter not 100% the same thing but if you ever happen by the USAF Armament Museum at Eglin AFB you'll see experimental 3 rounds on display there. They were designed in about 1970 for the IMP project and designated T1-T3. Those rounds were basically .221 Fireball necked up to .30 for use as a subsonic subgun round. Just saying. --ST

Wonder if SSK actually patented the 300 Whisper ... if so those rounds at Eglin could be used to invalidate the patent. Just saying .... if he only has it trademarked; then that is another story.

Sarg

[Schlafftablett]

Not 100% (again) but after a quick check the word "Whisper" is trademarked and I couldn't find a patent for the 300 Whisper design on the USPO site. I'm fairly sure that if it had been patented JD could have sued over the 300 Fireball, 221/300 and easily won. My ASSumption is that he know about or heard of the idea before making the marketing push that he did and just took the Trademark route because he knew he wouldn't be able to get a patent on the idea. --ST

[amafrank]

JD most definitely didn't invent the round but he did trademark the "Whisper" name. There were wildcat .30 cal's based on the .221 fireball and the whole 222/223 series not long after they came out commercially. That was way back in the 50's and 60's. As for him "inventing" the round as a subsonic I don't think that was the case either.....I've seen some evidence of similar or possibly identical rounds used in the 60's and 70's for subsonic use with heavy bullets. What I believe JD did was marketing where the others didn't. On some of the other rounds he claims (or others have claimed on his behalf) to have invented, some are probably his like the 510 whisper and others have obviously been tried before like the 338 1.5 also known as the .338 whisper. The .308 was shortened to 1.5" long ago and used in a number of applications including necked up to .338 and launching subsonics. It was also reduced to 6mm, 7mm and called the 6BR, 7BR and 30BR. Others like the 338 whisper 2 was used before and has been copied since by someone calling it a thumber or something like that....
I guess in the big scheme of things the original inventor seldom gets the credit, the guy who convinces everyone to use it does. The only gripe I've got with JD is that he seems a bit paranoid and hard to talk to unless you're handing him money. On the other hand, if I had a load of idiots like me asking questions I might get a bit crotchity too.

Frank