Reduced Capacity Brass

[michael30.06]

Hi I am new to the forum so I spent a while with the search function but got no joy. I reload for my WWII bolt action rifles, and have played around from time to time with heavy 30 cal bullets at less than super sonic speed, around 900 to 1150 fps with 150 to 220gr lead bullets.
Initially my interest was to get my home brewed lead bullets to spin rather than strip through the rifling when I pushed them too fast.
I have heard that a US company produced reduced capacity brass for the 30.06 and the 308. But I cannot find any advertised on the web.
Does it still exist, or can I safely make my own cases by filling an empty case with lead then drilling out the center from mouth to primer pocket?
Any advice on finding this brass or creating my own, much appreciated.
The end product will be used at up to 150 yds on Chital deer and feral pigs pushing a 240gn Hp soft lead bullet.:smile:

[Fastshooter03]

I'm sure others will chime in but what is the twist rate on the WWII rifle?
Once you know that, you'll know your approximate max bullet weight for subsonic shooting.
I thought about CNC lathing up some 308 brass from solid a while back but since then I've gone with the 30-221 type and have been happy.
I've never heard of reduced capacity brass but I'm sure somebody more experienced knows for sure.


Nick

[michael30.06]

The twist on the WWII rifle I'm going to start with is 1 in 10 a Springfield 1903
think it's a 1933 production number. The max according to Maths is about 190gn but I have seen good results from an Enfield 303 with 265gn Hp, neat clean holes in paper at 100yds so apparently there is another factor involved other than twist imparted spin stability. LOTS to learn. :grin:

[michael30.06]

How about filling the 30.06 case with molten lead up to the shoulder then drilling out a shaft from primer to neck that has the same volume as a 221 fireball case? Would that be possible, I do not have a 221 case to measure but I'm sure the info is on the net some where. :smile:

[HUNTER2]

Liberty suppressor used to make machined, reduced cap. brass. They said it was not very cost effective. But have seen on U-TUBE of them shooting sub 308 with Trailboss. hope this helps...

[LouBoyd]

How about filling the 30.06 case with molten lead up to the shoulder then drilling out a shaft from primer to neck that has the same volume as a 221 fireball case? Would that be possible, I do not have a 221 case to measure but I'm sure the info is on the net some where. :smile:

The volume of a 300-221 case I have (from the Quickload database) is 1.62 cm^3 (cc) which is 24.95 grains H2O. That's level with the case mouth.

I agree completly with the use of cast lead bullets for your application. Bore friction makes shooting jacketed or copper alloy solids very difficult at subsoinic velocities with a long barrel. In a bolt action you don't have to worry about fouling a gas port. Also cast lead bullets are much shorter than copper jacketed boattails of the same weight so you should be able to shoot flat base cast bullets over 200 grains with the 10" twist without stability problems.

[michael30.06]

So it's the length of the bullet that dictates how fast it needs to be spun in order to stabilize in the barrel. Now I can see where my assumption about 190gn being the heaviest bullet my 1 in 10 barrel was wrong. Thanks:grin:

[LouBoyd]

It's the combinaton of bullet diamter, length, weight, overall shape, intenal mass distribution, air density, air temperature, and bullet velocity which determine the spin rate needed for a bullet to stabiize. A computer program like McGyro can assist in determining a bulet's stability, but just shooting them is a more reliable test. It's hard to determine the internal density distribution of jacketed bullets.

Most bullets have the best stability at Mach 0.85 to 0.9 for subsoinic bullets, and at speeds above Mach 1.5 for supersonic bullets. Mach .95 to 1.1 are the least stable.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmdrag-5.0.cgi
http://www.patagoniaballistics.com/images/balengine_clip_image001.jpg

[BHP]

Blaylock Gun Works used to make a reduced capacity .308 case. They were machined from brass barstock I believe and they suggested annealing the case necks each time for better life. I believe they were $5 each in quantities of 20 about 10-15 years ago. They were said to function properly in an M14 shooting subsonic loads. I doubt they are still in production.

I also remember reading that JD Jones experimented with something similar back when Rhodesia still existed. I believe he filled the cases to the neck with some sort of epoxy and drilled them out. That was said to be effective but time consuming and very tedious. I want to say that functioned through a stock FAL but I think there may have been some issues with consistency but I don't know.

If anything comes out of this I'd like to hear about it.

[michael30.06]

I'm preparing 2 lots of brass. One filled with lead and the other filled with hotmelt glue. then I will drill out the filler with a 17/64" or a 6.5 mm drill which ever I have on hand then start to work up a load using trail boss. :grin:

[daveinsvaz]

A while back I was interested in reducing the capacity of my 6.5X55 to that of the 6.5 TCU.
I took 6.5 Swede brass, opened the neck to 375. Cut off the neck of a 223 hull. Remove the primer of the 223 hull and drill out primer pocket to almost maximum size. Don't make it a complete cylinder, as you may need a small ledge to assist in driving the 223 brass into the hull. Put modified 223 case in expanded 6.5X55 hull. Resize the 6.5 Swede brass. Use 6.5 TCU reloading data.
I used the same idea on 308 brass to make a poor man's 300 whisper. But you have to add an additional step. Cut the 223 hull off at the extractor grove. It works very well on the old Spanish '93 Mausers you may feel cautious about full 308 loads.
Expect to loose up to 10% of modified brass, if it's more than once fired.
Dave
Sierra Vista, AZ

[michael30.06]

I like the idea of a pre-formed sleeve inside the brass. So I changed my plan somewhat.
I part filled cleaned and deprimed 30.06 cases with builders glue, the stuff you fix drywall on with. It doesn't shrink when it cures and is strong without being too flexible or brittle. Then put 2 layers of aluminium foil round a 6.5mm rod and pushed it into the part filled case, untill the glue came out of the primer hole, then this was blocked and the rod pushed in farther untill the rest of the case was filled solid with glue. I pulled out the 6.5mm rod leaving an aluminium tube straight down the centre of the case.
These will take a few days to cure so once I am sure they are solid I will clean out the necks and hopefully work out a consistent load.
The hotmelt glue was a dead end just too soft and flexible.
Lead filled cases are very time consuming to make, but probably would be the most robust . However only shooting will tell. :smile:

[Artful]

I took 6.5 Swede brass, opened the neck to 375. Cut off the neck of a 223 hull. Remove the primer of the 223 hull and drill out primer pocket to almost maximum size. Don't make it a complete cylinder, as you may need a small ledge to assist in driving the 223 brass into the hull. Put modified 223 case in expanded 6.5X55 hull. Resize the 6.5 Swede brass. Use 6.5 TCU reloading data.
I used the same idea on 308 brass to make a poor man's 300 whisper. But you have to add an additional step. Cut the 223 hull off at the extractor grove. It works very well on the old Spanish '93 Mausers you may feel cautious about full 308 loads.

Expect to loose up to 10% of modified brass, if it's more than once fired.

Dave
Sierra Vista, AZ

Dave, did you anneal the brass before expanding the neck - and why didn't you just shorten the brass at the neck end more for the 308 case?

[Bigfoot]

I was talking with a fella in Washington state that makes case inserts on a lathe for cat sneeze loads in a 45/70. He glues them in with Locktite so they can be removed with heat when the case life is over and installed into fresh brass. He PMed me a drawing and a photo.

[HUNTER2]

Started working on a 375-06 imp with a 1-8 twist. TrailBoss is working out real well with a 350 gr. bullet. With the rifeling being stripped - is the bullet being over sized, hardness, gas checked? Have had to go with a softer bullet for it to "slug up", and the gc will definately help.