about to start a whisper project, need help :)

[kristfin]

hi all,

i've been reading about those whispers for some months and like to get one, but since i'm in iceland that is not trivial.

i have a Sako l579, short action with a .243 barrel that i was thinking about using as a base. the idea was to geta a new whispered barrel from usa, and have a gunsmith here in iceland fit it to the sako.

given the bolt face on the sako, i think that .302 or .338 whisper is what i can choose between. any reccomendation on which i should choose, easier to get bullets in .300 obviously.

can you give me good advice on the whole shabang.

is the gun right, what caliber?

if i take this further, where can i buy the barrel in usa, can it be prefitted to the sako so the gunsmith here in iceland has just to adjust it or does it require a reamer?
where can i get a reamer and dies if needed?

just to get started, greetings from iceland.

[Spook]

kristfin, We have the issue of an export permit when shipping barrels out of the country. Check with Rock Creek Barrels in Albany Wisconsin first. SSK should also be able to export.

[kristfin]

i have exchanged some emails with jdj. he is a man of few words.

i will ask the good people at RCB in Albany first.

can somebody confirm that .302 whisper is a good choice. do you know where i can find reamer and dies for it?

should i perhaps look at .338 whisper instead?

[Spook]

You might get the Lapua 6BR brass for cheap enough over there to make it less cost prohibitive....but the 300 whisper does most of what a 302 does for much less investment. Load data is more readily available for the 300 too.
If you just have to have one....30BR reamer and dies will replicate it closely enough. You will need a throating reamer.

I've been messing with 338 in both the BR case and the 7.62X39 :smile: its nice lobbing the extra 60 grains of lead downrange and the accuracy is just fine :grin: If cost doesnt constrain you 338 X 300 grains is good stuff.

[kristfin]

my main reason for going the .302 way, is the fact that i have a sako short action riffle in .243 i was plannig to modify for this. i've not been successfull finding a decent used .222 or similar here in iceland.

i actually started looking towards the .338 whisper because of the boltface on the sako, but then i came across the .302

i still donðt find many resources about .302. are you sure i can find reamers and dies for it.

[kristfin]

is there anybody here that can confirm that i can get a barrel, dies and reamer in .302 somewhere?

also if somebody could comment on the sensibility of it :)

[ReAX222]

is there anybody here that can confirm that i can get a barrel, dies and reamer in .302 somewhere?

also if somebody could comment on the sensibility of it :)

With a bolt action rifle, you will most likely need a finish reamer anyway to set the head space to your bolt. When I built my .308 bolt gun, I got a PTG (Pacific tool and gauge I think) reamer from midway along with a short chambered shillen barrel. If your willing to take the time and you have the tools, you can probably get a blank from most any manuf and chamber it yourself. If not, between a short chambered barrel from shillen, or any other barrel manufacture and a pull through reamer you can build it up to your spec.

If you decide to do your own chamber/set the head space, pick at least a two gauge set if not all three, go, no-go and field.

I know nothing about the .302. I have a 300 whisper and I'm interested in doing a 338 whisper 2 (it's the same 221 case but with a 338 bullet.)

[d-mon]

Hi,
I think I gave you quite a few solutions in another post but obviously your not satisfied with it.

So to make things clear:
You want to keep your sako with 308 boltface, right.
DON't Bother with a 302 whisper, if ssk does not want to export to you.

The 30 br is exactly the same , except for the lenght of the throat; you can have that adjusted with a throater or by having your 30br reamer throught ground for longer bullets.
The reloading dies are easy to find and the bullets are not to expensive.

Now for the 338br, what you are going to need is a reamer as well (I have one), some specific dies that are a bit more expensive and your are going to shoot a very expensive 338 grain bullet if you shoot the sierra match king 300gr.

It is your money, so i don't know what is your budget for the project, but if you can't afford to buy another rifle with a 223 bolt face to convert to 300whisper then your budget seems to be limited.

Then maybe stay with 308 winchester with a tight twist barrel like 1in 9 or 1in 8 inches and you will still have good fun up to 200m.Still the cheapest option then.

If you dont bother with paper work, you could ask your local gunsmith to remove your old barrel, and you can send your complete action to either Pac-nor in US or Border barrel in Scotland and have them rebarrel it to the caliber of your choice. Border barrel is not the cheapest option but might be the easiest regarding papaerwork: again a matter of money and time here.

http://www.border-barrels.com/

www.pac-nor.com

I hope that with all that help you can make your mind...

good luck.
nick



If

[kristfin]

thanks.

i've been working on this for a while now.

i've written off buying a contender here in iceland. all the guys having one seem to have different ideas about price than i do.

i've also written off anything but a .300-221.

i'm still looking into my options.

1) buying a barrel, reamer, hedsspace gauge, go and nogo, and have a local gunsmith fit it for me. would be nice to have a single company that could suply this for me, but i haven't found any. the barrel would come from one and the rest from pacific gauge

2) import a gun, either a cz from kelly kyle on gunbroker or have a company like bullberry create a contender riffle for me and send me.

3) find somebody that has a good gun, dies, brass and everything i need and negotiate the deal of the century.

[pug]

Well I am glad to see you haven't given up because the 300/221 is one of the most cost efficient of the whisper type cartridges.

If you could clarify something you stated earlier. Do you have someone in the US who can ship you a completed rifle if gotten in their hands or do you need an independent dealer to export it to you?

Since a 223 bolt is not available for your action you will need a complete firearm it looks like. A T/C is what it is and make sure a single shot is what you are interested in. I prefer repeaters myself but I know people who hunt with the Contender pistols in 300/221. The link below is what I use to check current "mail order" firearm prices and you could look at the Savage Model 10 in 223 to see if that would suit you. There are people around who can rebarrel one of those in 300/221. That rifle, rebarreled, with the dies and brass delivered to someone who can ship to you should put you in the price range you stated. Of course everyone would have to make their little profit so I am not positive of that.

www.budsgunshop.com

[LouBoyd]

if i take this further, where can i buy the barrel in usa, can it be prefitted to the sako so the gunsmith here in iceland has just to adjust it or does it require a reamer?

just to get started, greetings from iceland.

The only company I know of in the US which offers quality barrels prefit to Sako 579 action, with avaiable fast twists , and chambering in 300/221 (aka 300 Whisper). is Pac-Nor. See www.pac-nor.com. Their methhod of prefitting just expects a light cut on the length of the barrel shank to set the headspace. With wildcat cartdges that's not always required. If you send them a dummy cartrige (bullet and case but no powder or primer they set the throat to your request. Whether they'll ship to Iceland is the question. If they don't it's not their fault. The US has become tight on their export rules and manufacturer export licenses. It doesn't cost anything to send them an email and ask.

[Rikky Lee]

Noting the earlier question about the 302 Whisper - see my never ending thread in the other section on reloading. It is a 30BR with a fast twist barrel. PM me after reading if you have any further questions as I finally have it working with all bullet weights from 125 --> 250.

[pug]

I didn't think a bolt was made for the 579 that would work with the 300/221 but perhaps my info is wrong. I thought that was the original problem. The Remington 700 SPS all setup to go aren't unreasonable but I know some don't like polymer stocks :smile:.

[kristfin]

If you could clarify something you stated earlier. Do you have someone in the US who can ship you a completed rifle if gotten in their hands or do you need an independent dealer to export it to you?

No i don't have one.

I have written off my l579 since it has the a .308 boltface and the .338 bullets are so expensive.

[kristfin]

Hi,
I think I gave you quite a few solutions in another post but obviously your not satisfied with it.

i have explored those, and thank you. but i have to admit that i'm going a litle bit into circles


It is your money, so i don't know what is your budget for the project, but if you can't afford to buy another rifle with a 223 bolt face to convert to 300whisper then your budget seems to be limited.

my main problem here in iceland has been, that i've not been able to get one used, it is cheaper for me to import one used from the states, rather than buying a new one here.

as of now, i'm looking for a whole gun to be exported to iceland, or a barrel/reamer/headspace/go/nogo set.

[kristfin]

i've written off converting the sako l579 to a whisper. i'm just finishing it as a .243 and will sell it to pay for the whisper.

[Buckshot]

Hey Kristfinn.
Did you ever consider buying a barrel from Lothar Walther in Europe?
I got one in .300-221 (.300 Whisper) with a twist of 1/8 for my SIG 551 SWAT.
My local gunsmith did make the outside of the barrel.
Just send me a message if you want to know more.

[kristfin]

i just got a .222 sako vixen to use as a base for my 300/221 whisper project.

so now i just need the following:
- a barrel cal .30 1:8 twist, i'll get a local gunshop to order it for me, most likely a shilen
- .300/221 die set, have not been able to find it on ebay, and midway wants a minimum order of $500 to ship to iceland. if somebody is willing to act as a proxy for me, that would be nice.
- reamer and go/nogo gauge, will order it from pacific gauge (again, a proxy for it would be nice)
- bullet mold for 120 and 240 grain bullets. the bloody bullets here are so expensive, that i'm just going to start rolling my own. any reccomendations for a mold?

cheers, kf

[kristfin]

just a brief update.

now i have managed to get the die set, bullet molds, reamer, go and nogo gauges, molds and you name it. everything but the barrel.

the sako l461 that i have, has a standard .222 barrel. would it make sense to have a barrel made that would fit right into the stock, that is to just have ligth barrel?

am i loosing some accuracy by having a lighter barrel? my can is on the heavy side so perhaps its not a good idea?

how long should i have the barrel, does 18" sound ok. i guess i will both be shooting 120gr supersonic and 210 gr subsonic.

cheers,
kf

[kristfin]

hi all,

i'm giving up on the barrel front.

i've not been able to find anybody that can export a barrel from usa, but a catalog barrel and those don't come faster than 1:10.

buying a european barrel in 1:8 is horribly expensive.

is it a hopeless case, using a 1:10 barrel? how heavy bullets can i stabilize subsonic with 1:10?

[kristfin]

the never ending story.

i have finally found a good man in the states that can export the barrel for me to iceland.

i have talked to pac-nor and they are happy with sending him the barrel.

i just need some final reccomendations.

i plan to shoot foxes and possibly something bigger subsonic and reindeers and stuff supersonic. both super and subsonic i will be punching paper with

if i buy a 1:8 barrel, is that going to give me worse results with 140gr bullets supersonic than a 1:10 barrel would?

i'm thinking about what twist to get. i'm getting worried, that perhaps 1:8 is more for subsonic, but is going to be worse supersonic. in the end of the day, i will be shooting mostly supersonic.

please advise.

[pug]

You have gone to a great deal of trouble to arrange for a 300/221 and due to its nature excels using a 1:8 twist. Since you are using a bolt gun you can load the lightest bullet available to subsonic velocity and it may stabilize but since I don't have a bolt action in 300/221 I have never experimented to find out.

[kristfin]

when browsing the internet. i only find references to 1:8 being needed if you plan to shoot 220-240 subsonic. apart from that, 1:10 should be ok.

like this booklet here from sierra http://listmequick.com/300/Sierra300whisper.pdf

i still cannot decide what would be the best ballance for me. 1:8, 1:9 or 1:10 :)

[kristfin]

never say never.

my barrel, which i ordered nearly 2 years ago finally surfaced here in iceland. it got lost in the states during shipping, but somehow it managed to get to the destination. most likely it fell behind a desk or something. anyway. water under the bridge.

so now i have:
pac nor, .30 1:8, 28 inches super grade barrel
30/221 reamer
go and nogo gauges
molds
sako l461 .222

i'm going to hand the barrel and the l461 to a gunsmith next week and have the barrel shortened and attached. i will then start on the stock.
i was wondering, would a 20inch barrel make sense, i plan to use it with and without a can, super and subsonic.

to be honest, i had given up on this project. spent a lot of money on the barrel and it got lost, and i basically just got the finger when looking for it. (NB: pacnor was not to blame, fabulous service from their end)
but i have since learned to use the molds for my k31 and i'm building my own bullets now. and the 222 turned out to be a fabulous goose gun. i can take them down easily on 200 meters with it.

since i gave up on the whisper, i had some time to play with my mauser :)
http://obak.info/gallery3/var/resizes/2011/ida/IMG_4842.jpg?m=1296737417

[Titleiiredneck]

I would go 16 inches for use with a silencer/can, or shorter if possible with YOUR LAWS. If possible then 12-14 inches would be ideal and will still get you to 350-400m easily with supersonics and 200+m with subsonics. If you barrel blank is 30 inches or longer then you can easily get two barels out of the blank and make some money back if wanted, just a idea:grin:

I am so happy that you recived all your parts, I was watching this post earlier and was wondering if you ever finished! Please feel free to ask any questions, and thats a nice mauser!

[snipecatcher]

You can shoot geese with a rifle!? Lucky! We can only use shotguns here in the states.
-Dan

[i8asquirrel]

never say never.

my barrel, which i ordered nearly 2 years ago finally surfaced here in iceland. it got lost in the states during shipping, but somehow it managed to get to the destination. most likely it fell behind a desk or something. anyway. water under the bridge.

so now i have:
pac nor, .30 1:8, 28 inches super grade barrel
30/221 reamer
go and nogo gauges
molds
sako l461 .222

i'm going to hand the barrel and the l461 to a gunsmith next week and have the barrel shortened and attached. i will then start on the stock.
i was wondering, would a 20inch barrel make sense, i plan to use it with and without a can, super and subsonic.

to be honest, i had given up on this project. spent a lot of money on the barrel and it got lost, and i basically just got the finger when looking for it. (NB: pacnor was not to blame, fabulous service from their end)
but i have since learned to use the molds for my k31 and i'm building my own bullets now. and the 222 turned out to be a fabulous goose gun. i can take them down easily on 200 meters with it.

since i gave up on the whisper, i had some time to play with my mauser :)
http://obak.info/gallery3/var/resizes/2011/ida/IMG_4842.jpg?m=1296737417

Dude Just My 2 cents But I would not be talking about shooting fedrally regulated Migratory birds with a rifle in an open forum.:grin:

[Hoser]

Dude Just My 2 cents But I would not be talking about shooting fedrally regulated Migratory birds with a rifle in an open forum.

Dude. He is in Iceland...

[kristfin]

here in iceland, if i have hunting permit and gun licence, i can use riffle or shotgun for the goose. but the season is not that long, though.

[Alleycat]

I love my K31 rifle. If only it was easier to scope.

[snipecatcher]

The St. Marie's clamp-on mount worked fine when I had a K31. I put an old 4x32 scope on it and it didn't look half bad. It held zero just fine.
-Dan

[kristfin]

i was thinking about 20" barrel length. what are the pros and cons of going longer or shorter. the barrel blank i have is 28", but i don't see a 14" barrel work, to be able to get two barrels out of the blank. not sure i could get the gun registered.

[i8asquirrel]

My Bad i didn't see that........I'm in oregon and there is always a grass seed farmer smoking geese that are eating and fouling feilds and then Bragging and getting Popped.

[Sami]

here in iceland, if i have hunting permit and gun licence, i can use riffle or shotgun for the goose. but the season is not that long, though.

Back home in Finland, same thing, and you can get a suppressor over the counter and use it for any game you wish. Wish it was like that here as well. Oh well, at least we can get a suppressor.

[kristfin]

silencers are a compleatly different issue here in iceland. nobody can legally use or aquire it.

but on the length issue. the barrel blank is 28". my can is 6 inches, so overall length will be about 20" if i have the barrel 14". then i can get two barrels out of the blank. how does that sound

[Sami]

silencers are a compleatly different issue here in iceland. nobody can legally use or aquire it.

Just out of curiosity, what is the story on your silencer then?

but on the length issue. the barrel blank is 28". my can is 6 inches, so overall length will be about 20" if i have the barrel 14". then i can get two barrels out of the blank. how does that sound

As long as that's a legal length for a barrel in Iceland, should be good. Even shorter should be fine.

[kristfin]

saami, the can story is that i just created it myself :)

but, at long last i'm up and running with my 300 whisper. i decided to use the original stock for the first round, was to impatient to start shooting it.

i decided to have the barrel 16" and it seems to balance fine with or without the can.
http://obak.info/gallery3/var/resizes/misc/projects/guns/whisper/IMG_5249.JPG

when i removed the glossy finish on the stock it was but ugly underneath. seems that my relatives in finland color it prior to applying the glossy finish. i tried to clean it up and then i just blindly picked something from my shelf and it turned out to be green.

http://obak.info/gallery3/var/resizes/misc/projects/guns/whisper/IMG_5246.JPG

i installed a picatinny rail and a bipod, not sure how the final version will be.

i have fired a few test rounds and it seems to work very well. the plan is to use cast bullets from my 120 and 200 grain lee molds. ammo is getting so expensive and that has been the driving factor in this project.
now i'll be using some 7-10 grains of powder behind my ww cast bullets, so thats as inexpensive as it can get.

here in iceland Vihtavuori is the most common powder and i have some v110 to start with. i also have some 123 grain fmj's to play with. i got some 300 nato .223 rounds that i have converted so now its going to be big time play time :)

[Sami]

saami, the can story is that i just created it myself :)

Might keep it hush-hush then...pun intended! :)


here in iceland Vihtavuori is the most common powder and i have some v110 to start with.

Lucky you! VV is pretty hard to find here, mostly just by mail order. N110 should work quite well in 300 Whisper, that would have been my first choice if it was readily available. According to Vihtavuori N120 has similar burn rate as AA1680 which seems to be a favourite auto-loader powder. For N110 similar powder would be IMR4227.