Help, Not Sure What I'm Getting Into...

[Novice]

Here, this is probably the better place to post. I am trying to find out what this gun is worth. It is a DPMS lower with what I believe is a M1S 300 Fireball upper (at least that is what the barrel says). However the man I am buying it from said that he believes only the barrel is a 300 Whisper and the upper is a DPMS, and that I could simply buy just a .223 barrel and exchange them out. Oh, and it comes with a Redfield LE-9 tactical scope. Here are some pics, and it comes with a box of ammo. I currently have a Dillon 550B reloader, so I could roll my own. Please help on what I am looking out with this gun, your opinions on it, and what you think it would be worth.



Thanks a millon,

Barry. aka- Novice

[copper]

The rifle itself appears to be a mix of parts, with a model 1 sales barrel, DPMS lower and an ACE stock. Assuming it's in good shape, I'd say that is worth $750 to $800 in todays market. The Redfield LE scopes are pretty nice quality. I've got a 4x12 LE variable on a .308 bolt action rifle and it's a nice optic. I'd say that is worth about $300. So together, you have about $1050 to $1100 worth of stuff there. Of course that's my personal opinion and not gospel.

[Novice]

Thanks Cooper,

I was hoping that I could pick it up and maybe make $100 or so. I buy and sell all the time, and this is the first I have heard of a 300 Whisper or 300 Fireball. He wants $950 for everything, so I guess I will let this one go. If I knew I could sell it for $1100 cash I would snap it up, but I don't even know how to find a buyer as strange as that sounds. Thanks again.

[LouBoyd]

I'd say copper has made a good estimate.

Whether the upper receiver is DPMS or M1S doesn't matter much. I doubt you could detect a difference from changing uppers other than perhaps cosmetically.

The M1S barrel will cycle and stabilize supersonic or subsonic heavy bullet loads. Without a suppressor the muzzle blast is nearly as much as a 223. It just is missing the supersonic crack of the bullet downrange.

If you don't want a 300 Fireball I'd suggest you sell the complete upper on gunBroker.com then buy a complete 223 upper of your choice. That's the least hassle. Keep the scope if you like it.

[Novice]

Thanks guys, I think I will pass on it all together. To me the AR is nothing more than a novelty item. Sure it looks cool, but I have never had one group the way my bolt or single fire rifles have. But I guess if we went to war in my town, it would be nice to have. :) I was really buying it to resale, but if I can't make $50 or $100 then it is not worth it.

[Fudmottin]

With tuned ammo and someone better at shooting than I am, I'm pretty sure my AR can touch 1/4 MOA. It can certainly beat 1/2 MOA. That's with the 223 barrel. I've been too busy to test the 300-221 barrel. I expect similar performance though.

If your guns are bench guns, I can see why you might think an AR is not accurate. But a good AR can match a good bolt gun when built right.

[leo6223]

Buying a gun with the intention of reselling is a no-no and can run afoul of ATF regs.

It really seems that after paging through a good many pages here (and in the "for sale" forums) there seems that there may be a few "posers" looking to catch an unknowing person....ie ATF agents with nothing better to do.

In "today's" market an AR is worth more than 700-800. In fact they are worth a tad over a grand easy. Depending on how desperate some people are they are worth as much as $1600.


Personally, I'd buy the gun and part it out. you'll make more selling the parts then you will the whole rifle.

In fact, if you don't want to buy the gun then give me the guys info. I'll buy it from him. And no, I won't buy it from you after you buy from him.........because I guess my tinfoil is wrapped too tightly on my head but I would suspect it would be some type of ridiculous attempt to bait me into something "illegal".


Again, you said you like to "buy and resell"....well friend don't let the ATF goons ever figure that out....10 years in Fed pen.

[Spook]

But a good AR can match a good bolt gun when built right.

Only when the bolt gun isnt built right.

[JimM44]

leo, Good advice, I wondered in someone was going to tell him that.

I see current newspaper articles with the current panic and folks are quoted as buying two, one to shot and one to resell when the price goes up.

Your average person doesn't undertand that intent thing BUT if they would read the form they are signing it clearly asked if you are buying it for YOURSELF. If they are buying for investment to resell then the answer is NO on that form and the dealer would deny them the purchase.

I have sold a few over the years I no longer wanted but I didn't buy them with the intent to get rid of them, I had to have it at the time and later no longer wanted it.

My 7.62x39 AR was one example, I just HAD to have it and then didn't really like it. In fact the 7.62x39 I only got rid of the upper so I still have the part I filled out the form for.

[Spook]

leo, Good advice, I wondered in someone was going to tell him that.

I see current newspaper articles with the current panic and folks are quoted as buying two, one to shot and one to resell when the price goes up.

Your average person doesn't undertand that intent thing BUT if they would read the form they are signing it clearly asked if you are buying it for YOURSELF. If they are buying for investment to resell then the answer is NO on that form and the dealer would deny them the purchase.

I have sold a few over the years I no longer wanted but I didn't buy them with the intent to get rid of them, I had to have it at the time and later no longer wanted it.

My 7.62x39 AR was one example, I just HAD to have it and then didn't really like it. In fact the 7.62x39 I only got rid of the upper so I still have the part I filled out the form for.

If I put on a hat made of tin foil can they still read my mind?

[Malaga]

Where do these guys come from? I dont have enough tinfoil to make a hat...will saran wrap work...whoa Im way outa my league here...

[Fudmottin]

Only when the bolt gun isnt built right.

Why do you say that? If I didn't make it clear, I was excluding bench rest rifles because they are pretty much the peak of accuracy potential for small arms.

But an AR with a match barrel should do pretty well. The only extra variables come from the gas port. You do have some restrictions due to magazine feeding. Other than that, a barrel is a barrel.

[Spook]

Fudd, Its been my experience that for every hour and dollar you care to spend on reworking either ....The bolt gun will out shoot the AR by more than a narrow margin.
A well built AR would have difficulty matching the accuracy of an out of the box Savage if everyone were telling the truth.
What does the gas port have to do with anything?

[Fudmottin]

Fudd, Its been my experience that for every hour and dollar you care to spend on reworking either ....The bolt gun will out shoot the AR by more than a narrow margin.
A well built AR would have difficulty matching the accuracy of an out of the box Savage if everyone were telling the truth.
What does the gas port have to do with anything?

While disagreeing with me, you kind of make my point. My AR does not have a standard off the shelf barrel. It is a custom Douglas barrel.

I really have difficulty believing that an off the shelf Savage rifle could beat that.

If the gas port is insignificant, then where is the bolt gun's accuracy advantage coming from?

[Spook]

Fudd, you obviously know WAAAAAY more than I do with regard to rifle accuracy. Have a nice life.:smile:

[Fudmottin]

LOL!

I'll take that as an agreement to disagree :)

I do concede that an AR can never match a dedicated match bench rest gun though. I would feel a bit put out if an off the shelf Savage 223 beat my custom 223 AR. I put money into both the barrel and the trigger (Chip McCormic 3.5lb match trigger) to make an AR that was not just a bullet hose. It really should be in the 1/4 - 1/2 MOA range.

[interceptor]

Fud, you should take it as an opportunity to sit back and pull your foot out of your mouth.


Again.

[Fudmottin]

interceptor, you seem to be under the impression that just because I don't make barrels I know nothing about accuracy.

You must admit that the claim that an off the shelf Savage would beat a custom AR is just a bit of hyperbole.

I'm sure Spook knows far more than I do on the subject. And I never disputed that a bolt gun couldn't be made more accurate than an AR is capable of being made. I'm not even challenging the fact that bolt guns are cheaper than ARs to customize.

The fact remains that an AR can be made into a 1/4 MOA gun.

If your "Again" comment is a reference to my NFA Trust issues, that's fine. I don't know enough about PA trusts to make a valid revocable living trust that allows me to use NFA items that are owned by that trust. I wish I did. I would love to save on lawyer fees. But I don't. And even lawyers have told me that malpractice is an option for an invalid trust should the NFA commence forfeiture action. At the same time, those same lawyers are quite willing to stand behind the trust they draw up so that they can intercede in court to prevent forfeiture.

Look. I know I don't know everything. I do work at learning new things each day. If ever you or Spook are willing to meet me at Atglen with an off the shelf 223 rifle to go up against my AR 223, I'm willing to put $100 on the line for an honest contest. Factory ammo. Choose your range. Atglen goes out to 500 meters. We can even do the 100 meter range (which is, by my measurement, 93 meters).

http://www.atglensportsmensclub.org/index.asp

Federal Gold Match 69gr Ammo.
Same rest and bench for each rifle.
Third party shoots both rifles for ten shot groups.

I'm willing to suck on my toes all day long.

[interceptor]

interceptor, you seem to be under the impression that just because I don't make barrels I know nothing about accuracy.

*anyone looking at this forum can see immediately what you know.*

You must admit that the claim that an off the shelf Savage would beat a custom AR is just a bit of hyperbole.

*I have to admit to nothing.*

I'm sure Spook knows far more than I do on the subject. And I never disputed that a bolt gun couldn't be made more accurate than an AR is capable of being made. I'm not even challenging the fact that bolt guns are cheaper than ARs to customize.

*Your right, someone like Spook absolutely owns you.*

The fact remains that an AR can be made into a 1/4 MOA gun.

*Yup, and you can polish a turd. Mythbusters proved that.*

If your "Again" comment is a reference to my NFA Trust issues, that's fine. I don't know enough about PA trusts to make a valid revocable living trust that allows me to use NFA items that are owned by that trust. I wish I did. I would love to save on lawyer fees. But I don't. And even lawyers have told me that malpractice is an option for an invalid trust should the NFA commence forfeiture action. At the same time, those same lawyers are quite willing to stand behind the trust they draw up so that they can intercede in court to prevent forfeiture.

*You opened that can of worms asking for help with a trust and then mouthign off about wanting someone to sue if you got something wrong. Dont bite the hand that is trying to feed you.*

Look. I know I don't know everything. I do work at learning new things each day. If ever you or Spook are willing to meet me at Atglen with an off the shelf 223 rifle to go up against my AR 223, I'm willing to put $100 on the line for an honest contest. Factory ammo. Choose your range. Atglen goes out to 500 meters. We can even do the 100 meter range (which is, by my measurement, 93 meters).

*Yes, we all know about your super gun. Almost every post you make you blather on about it and all the name brand parts you have in it. Once was enough, trust me. There are MANY members here who have MUCH nicer stuff than you can ever hope to own who dont feel the need to brag. And that is exactly what you do, both about it and the .300 that you haven't found the time to shoot yet.*

http://www.atglensportsmensclub.org/index.asp

Federal Gold Match 69gr Ammo.
Same rest and bench for each rifle.
Third party shoots both rifles for ten shot groups.

I'm willing to suck on my toes all day long.

*Whatever that means, obviously it turns you on.*

[interceptor]

Now, my apologies to the original poster and all other members viewing this thread.