Quarterbore
03-23-2005, 10:14 PM
Rambo
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: Dutch M9?? anyone knows what M9 is used in the dutch army????
porterkids
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: Dutch M9
In 1994 the Dutch government purchased over 50,000 M16 rifles from the Canadian manufacturer Diemaco. The Dutch wanted a complete package, so Diemaco purchased M9 bayonets from Buck to accompany the rifles. I have never seen one of these bayonets in person and unfortunately Buck does not have any information related to the bayonets. Joe Houser of Buck Knives told me that he believes that they were probably just standard 1994 commercial marked bayonets.
When the Dutch bought the Diemaco M16 rifles, they also purchased a multi-year support contract. Some time in 1998 they contacted Diemaco and wanted bayonet parts and complete bayonets. Diemaco contacted Buck, but by that point in time Buck had ceased production of the M9 bayonet. Buck felt that the burden of fulfilling the bayonet order was the responsibility of Diemaco, not them. Diemaco then contacted Lan-Cay asking for their help. Unfortunately, the Dutch government did not want the standard Lan-Cay Product Improved bayonet. They wanted replacements in the same configuration as the original bayonets they purchased from Buck. After a period of negotiation, the Dutch agreed to a modified PI bayonet. Lan-Cay had to adapt their standard scabbards to include a recessed stone, a full back webbing to cover the stone and a two strap retaining system like the original Buck M9 bayonets. All of this scabbard modification had to be done by hand. They also insisted on the web pouch. The scabbard body being used was the standard Lan-Cay PI scabbard so it did not have the loops at the side of the body. Instead, the straps just wrapped around the scabbard body above the bumped out hand stop. The Dutch order was for 150 bayonets.
Slufstuff
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:14 pm
To add a little to Bill's post, I exchanged e-mails a couple of years ago with a Dutch soldier. He stated that many of the Buck M9's supplied have been modified as field knives. He indicated that the crossguards are being modified, removing the bayonet muzzle loop. This is a sanctioned modification, though he was not clear whether it was a unit level modification, or more widespread. A verified Dutch contract M9 would be a real prize as I, like Bill, have never seen one in person. (And believe me, if Bill Porter does not have one, it is just not out there!)
porterkids
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:25 pm Post subject: Buck / Diemaco M9
I was able to make contact with a person at Diemaco through another good collector friend. I was initially looking for information on the 1998 Lan-Cay replacement bayonets, but the person I was corresponding with did not have, or did not care to share, any information on the subject. He did, however, send me a photo of the bayonets that they provided to the Dutch. I had conversations with Joe Houser at Buck Knives in the past and he was not able to provide definitive information on the bayonets, but thought that they were probably the standard 1994 commercial model. You have to look hard, but you can see the 1994 date code on the bayonet in the photo.
http://members.aol.com/porterkids/Diemacobuckbayonet.jpg
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:44 pm Post subject: Dutch M9?? anyone knows what M9 is used in the dutch army????
porterkids
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: Dutch M9
In 1994 the Dutch government purchased over 50,000 M16 rifles from the Canadian manufacturer Diemaco. The Dutch wanted a complete package, so Diemaco purchased M9 bayonets from Buck to accompany the rifles. I have never seen one of these bayonets in person and unfortunately Buck does not have any information related to the bayonets. Joe Houser of Buck Knives told me that he believes that they were probably just standard 1994 commercial marked bayonets.
When the Dutch bought the Diemaco M16 rifles, they also purchased a multi-year support contract. Some time in 1998 they contacted Diemaco and wanted bayonet parts and complete bayonets. Diemaco contacted Buck, but by that point in time Buck had ceased production of the M9 bayonet. Buck felt that the burden of fulfilling the bayonet order was the responsibility of Diemaco, not them. Diemaco then contacted Lan-Cay asking for their help. Unfortunately, the Dutch government did not want the standard Lan-Cay Product Improved bayonet. They wanted replacements in the same configuration as the original bayonets they purchased from Buck. After a period of negotiation, the Dutch agreed to a modified PI bayonet. Lan-Cay had to adapt their standard scabbards to include a recessed stone, a full back webbing to cover the stone and a two strap retaining system like the original Buck M9 bayonets. All of this scabbard modification had to be done by hand. They also insisted on the web pouch. The scabbard body being used was the standard Lan-Cay PI scabbard so it did not have the loops at the side of the body. Instead, the straps just wrapped around the scabbard body above the bumped out hand stop. The Dutch order was for 150 bayonets.
Slufstuff
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:14 pm
To add a little to Bill's post, I exchanged e-mails a couple of years ago with a Dutch soldier. He stated that many of the Buck M9's supplied have been modified as field knives. He indicated that the crossguards are being modified, removing the bayonet muzzle loop. This is a sanctioned modification, though he was not clear whether it was a unit level modification, or more widespread. A verified Dutch contract M9 would be a real prize as I, like Bill, have never seen one in person. (And believe me, if Bill Porter does not have one, it is just not out there!)
porterkids
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:25 pm Post subject: Buck / Diemaco M9
I was able to make contact with a person at Diemaco through another good collector friend. I was initially looking for information on the 1998 Lan-Cay replacement bayonets, but the person I was corresponding with did not have, or did not care to share, any information on the subject. He did, however, send me a photo of the bayonets that they provided to the Dutch. I had conversations with Joe Houser at Buck Knives in the past and he was not able to provide definitive information on the bayonets, but thought that they were probably the standard 1994 commercial model. You have to look hard, but you can see the 1994 date code on the bayonet in the photo.
http://members.aol.com/porterkids/Diemacobuckbayonet.jpg