220 gr. results on critters

[HUNTER2]

Tried some 220 rbt sent to me from Matrix Ballistics in Canada..Had a .232 meplat. Looks and shoots good. Sadly to say same result as smk on deer size animals..Straight through - no expansion....Next Diamondback Custom Bullets...He made up 4 designs to choose from. Chose RBTHP with a .190 HP. Same as above - no expansion..He sent a sample of each. One has a very short ogave with about a .280 HP. Will give them a try next..Have tried 180 btsp Speer backwards. Could not any difference in any of the above. Straight through - even shoulder, no trail. Makes a loud poping sound when a coyote is hit with one... Very satisfying!! Still have heard nothing from Hawk...Leheigh did say they would have a .338 on their subsonic version out soon........FYI

[egraham]

That has been my experience also. I wasted a lot of time and money realizing that the 208 grain amax load I have shoots the best and does the same amount of damage as anything else.

There is simply not enough velocity to get a 30 cal bullet to expand when shooting subsonic.

[mooster1223]

I thought that the 220's tumbled and created knife or broadhead type wounds when they hit.:confused:

[HUNTER2]

So far everything goes straight through like a pencil. I hear different things on the 240"s. Was hoping to find something to open up the tip to 1.5 dia.. Trying to talk to Hornady. If they can get a 380 90 gr. to open up at that slow speed - maybe they can with this.....

[redtazdog]

I thought that the 220's tumbled and created knife or broadhead type wounds when they hit.:confused:
.
The 220 rn tumble when they hit with my 1:8 twist SSK barrel.
What barrel and twist do you have ?

[HUNTER2]

A. Brown ,1:8,16.5", suppressed....One thing I forgot to mention before - If you load cast- the case mouth has to be flared or you will shave lead, and that bullet will hit nowhere near the others!!!! And make sure the seating stem is the right one ( nose shape ). Have worked up a jig using Bernzomatic torches that you can buy in wall-mart, and pvc pipe 45 couplings to anneal necks about every third firing - heat-dunk-dry off with hair dryer...Have a wildcat longggg neck 22 clark that has 20 on them so far by annealing them.....75 gr. A-Max at 3600'....

[rumlover]

The Matchking style hollowpoints will commonly tumble, but it's not assured. I shot two 'yotes over Christmas with some 240 SMKs; one round tumbled out leaving a exit in the exact shape of the bullet--sideways; the other zipped straight through. The difference was one hitting a rib and deforming at the tip, the other went through the liver/ponch and didn't deform. I had similar mixed results with deer and hogs over the years. In retrospect, it's no different than with a highpower load. Even with the same bullet, some perform as expected, some don't. It all depends on what they hit when they enter and what they cut as they pass through.

At the end of the day, I don't care if the bullet expands as long as it goes where I want it and exits the same. I think it's more important to let blood out on both sides of the body so you can track the animal down. Arrows deliver around 340 ft/lbs and a 240 smk at 1050 will deliver around 600 ft/lb (maybe more, it's been years since I ran it through datapack). No one can argue that arrows don't put game on the ground. Just focus on a well placed shot and carry on.

[d-mon]

Hello Rumlover,

I am quoting what you said:
"Arrows deliver around 340 ft/lbs and a 240 smk at 1050 will deliver around 600 ft/lb (maybe more, it's been years since I ran it through datapack). No one can argue that arrows don't put game on the ground. Just focus on a well placed shot and carry on. "
There is no doubt that the 240 smk carries enough energy to go through animals.
But if you want to compair with an arrow, here is my thought:
When the 240 smk tumble and cut large wound , it mimics the cut of a broadhead tipped arrow; when the same bullet travel through in straight line,it actually acts like a field point tipped arrow, spreading the "elastic" tissus that close back after the bullet/arrow passed through.
The effect is different as in the first case the the massive blood loss (if vital organed have been touched) will result in a faster kill.

Shot placement is important as you said.
I have shot a few animals with a bow over the last 10 years, so I understand a bit what is involved.

I have just experienced shooting with a 300 whisper and 240 smk for the last 6 months. So far I have only shot small game: 4 rabbits (120m, 150m,150m, 130m), 1 hare at 165m and a magpie at 100m.
In all case the bullet goes straight through and does not have enough material to tumble. The quickest death was the hare that made no more than 4m. Most of rabbits ran up to 40m before diying. The magpie was still alive as the bullet hit the shoulder.

My conclusion at this stage is that a 22lr with hollow point bullet performs better on small games mentionned above than a 300 whisper.

My next prey would be goats, to see if bullet tumble.

My other future project is a bolt action rifle in 458 socom.
Bigger diameter makes bigger hole, and with a bit of luck I might get a bit of expension. Balistic and accuracy wont probably match the whisper though.

Nic

[Alleycat]

It has been my experience that the 240 MK tumbles when the shot is at an angle. As in a deer quartering towards or away from the shooter. The deceleration of the tip causes the rear of the bullet to come around to the same angle as the target. On 90 degree hit it seems to pass through with no upset. I have no idea at what angle tumbling starts to occurs, but it would be an interesting test.

[Spook]

My other future project is a bolt action rifle in 458 socom.
Bigger diameter makes bigger hole, and with a bit of luck I might get a bit of expension. Balistic and accuracy wont probably match the whisper though.

Nic

Nic, you'd be surprised at how accurate the 458 can be. Expansion with every bullet I'd tried was nil, subsonic, but the 500 grain loads I was using made a mess out of whatever it hit.

[HUNTER2]

FYI - Info from Diamondback Custom Bullets---
Mr. S.

I’m writing to let you know that I’ve have several inquiries regarding sub-sonic 30 cal bullets. As with you, concerns were similar; good expansion at low velocities. This was something I had not considered when I committed to developing .270 and .308 bullets. Most all inquires and pending orders lean toward the higher velocity cartridges (300 Remington Ultra Mag, 300 Win Mag ) and other cartridges of these types. Since your request was the first sub-sonic request, I took the time to review the design and looked further into sub-sonic ammunition/performance. From what I can estimate, expansion with the bullets you purchased may not perform as well as expected. Making a larger HP is only one piece of the design. Other factors that must be considered to cause expansion are serration (segmentation) of the lead core and serration of the jacket must also be included in the design.



I’m waiting for deliver of additional tooling which should help with this problem. This is several weeks out. I’m not sure what impact these changes will have with the bullet’s terminal performance since I have no means for testing at sub-sonic levels. What I would like to do is send you five bullets, check them out and let me know how they perform (photo of recovered bullet would help as well as weight).



What is the muzzle velocity and expected terminal velocity of your loads?



If this is ok with you let me know and I’ll keep you informed



Jim Bohler

Diamondback Custom Bullets

761 Pinto Circle

Gardnerville, Nevada 89410

Email: diamondbackcbf@verizon.net

Phone/FAX: 775-267-5386

Didn't thank he would mind passing along the info....The ones I received were well made and shot good. They are not inexpensive, but would be worth it on hunting ammo.... Will be a 2 part core - about 2/3 of bottom bonded. Should hold together like a partition bullet......

[Rikky Lee]

There is a German bullet manufacturer who has been playing with that petal design.

http://www.lima-wiederladetechnik.de/7,62-mm/Bilder/3-7,62-mm-Gattergeschosse.jpg

and one of before and after bullet performance:

http://www.lima-wiederladetechnik.de/Geschosse/Moeller/7,62-mm-Gatter-vorher-nachher.jpg

His Whisper page is in German but Babelfish etc works well enough on it. http://www.lima-wiederladetechnik.de/7,62-mm/300-Whisper-Patrone.htm

Once again not cheap and also gets away from the "tumbling" effect of a mega-weight projectile. It is more using supersonic theory in a subsonic way.

BTW Schalldämpfers is Silencer.

[HUNTER2]

Leheigh bullets makes something on that order for larger caliber. They are working on the 338 but nothing in 300 yet. That is some bullet and web site. Looks like they have been working on the design for some time. WOULD LIKE TO TRY SOME THOUGH!!!!