Bolt or Auto?

[Cerebus]

For those that own, or have shot, the .300 Whisper in both bolt and gas guns, which is your preference? The more I read about the cartridge, the more I want to build one. The only thing I can't decide is if I would be better suited to a bolt gun or build an AR15. Any insite you could provide would be greatly appreciated. :grin:

[egraham]

I have used both and I prefer a bolt gun any day of the week. I guess it really depends on your ultimate use and your budget. I use mine for hunting so a bolt gun is the best fit for me.

[Cerebus]

Yeah, I probably should have specified the intended use. :) It will likely do nothing but punch paper it's entire life. I haven't thought much on budget yet. Any input there would be appreciated too. What you guys have spent (ballpark) on bolt and gas guns.

[nwcid]

Are you going to run it suppressed and subsonic or just standard?

If you are going suppressed Semi is going to be quiet, bolt is going to be stupidly quiet.

[Cerebus]

Definitely will be using subsonic ammo and a suppressor will be in the future.

[Spook]

Tough call, I cant imagine being without my ar-whisper, but when something really needs to get shot I always grab a bolt action :smile:
For target work...Bolt action. Savage being the least expensive option...then Rem..then CZ.

[egraham]

I have found nothing about subsonic supressed whispers to be cheap. My suggestion is to do your research and don't try to cut corners. Do it right.

[Gpz1100]

AAC Cyclone silencer = 560
NFA tax stamp = 200
Savage .223 action and stock = 400
Pac Nor barrel = 385

ambushing hogs = priceless

[Cerebus]

Good info there. The suppressor would definitely come down the road so I'd just be looking at the gun costs now. I have a "spare" AR15 receiver which is why I was originally contemplating the auto build, but the Savage option appeals to me since I can barrel it myself ...if I've been understanding what I've read on it. :grin:

[Cerebus]

Would there be a preferred Savage action? ...I know almost nothing about them.

[Gpz1100]

single shot action is the strongest, but you don't need that kind of strength for a 300-221. theres talk of a new style single shot savage action that will have a right and left ejection port.
neat thing about savage is with an action wrench, a barrel nut wrench, go, & no-go gages you can change barrels/caliber and bolt head if needed. get tired if 300-221? change to 221 fireball or 223

[redtazdog]

You could go with a TC in 300 Whisper and later you can use many
other barrel in calibers to suppress like 223, 44mag, 9mm, 45acp, 338Whisper,
510Whisper, 22lr
.
300 Whisper
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa166/redtazdog/TC300Whispersmall-1.jpg
.
510 Whisper
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa166/redtazdog/510Whisper1w.jpg
.
44 Mag
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa166/redtazdog/TCEncore44magSRTIntegeral.jpg

[Gpz1100]

i love my tc encore system. 22-250, 250-3000, 308 & 358. only reason i didn't go tc with the whisper was a problem i had with customer service at fox ridge. i still love the set up but won't be buying anything new from fox ridge or tc directly. if i end up with anymore tc stuff it'll have to be used. and that 44 is wicked!

[Cerebus]

I never even thought about a Encore. I've always been intrigued since you can change up the calibers so many ways. They are all single shot, correct? Any recommendations on where to shop for them?

[Gpz1100]

correct, all single shot, breech loaders. there are used tc contender whisper barrels that pop up on gunbroker or the specialty pistol board from time to time. if it's a tc/fox ridge barrel it'll only have a 1-10 twist. or you can order a new barrel from mgm or mcgowen in the 8 twist.

[redtazdog]

TC never has the proper twist for subsonic ammo so
I have barrels made by
http://www.sskindustries.com/
or
http://www.matchgrademachine.com/

[Cerebus]

Just a quick off-topic: what's the difference between the Encore and the Contender?

[Alleycat]

About 1 pound. :grin:

[Gpz1100]

lol-thats about right!

readers digest version---contenter=rimmed/low pressure---encore=belted/hi-pressure

[Cerebus]

Do they make 300 Whisper barrels for both?

[Gpz1100]

long ago tc made barrels for the contender with approval of jones/ssk. now if you want one it's through the fox ridge/custom shop, you can get it in either contender or encore. but i think they only have a 10 twist, whisper needs the 8 twist for heavy bullets

[redtazdog]

Do they make 300 Whisper barrels for both?
.
SSK and Match Grade Machine can make them with 1:8
twist for both the Contender and Encore.

[Garrett]

I haven't shot a semi-auto. However, bolt-action and T/C Contender are both stupid-quiet.

I've thought about building an AR15 upper, but after having made a few hundred pieces of brass, I don't want really want something that chucks the brass all over the place. I don't really care to loose any more brass than I need to.

[Pitt300]

Garrett,
Get a brass catcher,
Get one of the better ones like the Wook.
See attached:

http://www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=ACA002&storeid=1&image=brasscatcher.gif

[Cerebus]

Yeah, based on what I've been reading here and other placed, I am definitely going the bolt action route. Just trying to narrow down which host to use now. :)

[m21black]

build it on a cz or other mini mauser action.... the best of the auto loaders are built on a mini 14

[Pitt300]

best of the auto loaders are built on a mini 14?????????????

[Cerebus]

I found a Rem 700 action in .223 that I couldn't pass up.

[m21black]

Get a hold of Mike Rock or Paul at Rock Creek and order a barrel...

[m21black]

I didn't say the easiet nor have a built one myself... but based on my cantact in New Zealand who happens to be one of the few who is autorized by SSK to use the Whisper name... Stronger than the AR platform... more rigid...

best of the auto loaders are built on a mini 14?????????????

[450NE]

[QUOTE=redtazdog;10580]
.
300 Whisper
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa166/redtazdog/TC300Whispersmall-1.jpg
.

That 300 whisper you've got there with the folding stock is exactly what I want. That's a contender isn't it ? Who did the barrel and what is the length? Also, who's suppressor did you use? Are you happy with the resulting "stealthiness" and accuracy?

Thanks.:uzi2:

[redtazdog]

[QUOTE=redtazdog;10580]
.
300 Whisper
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa166/redtazdog/TC300Whispersmall-1.jpg
.

That 300 whisper you've got there with the folding stock is exactly what I want. That's a contender isn't it ? Who did the barrel and what is the length? Also, who's suppressor did you use? Are you happy with the resulting "stealthiness" and accuracy?

Thanks.:uzi2:
That is a 16inch SSK 1:8 twist barrel, Choate folding stock, AAC 762sd can.
I have many cans and many host for cans and this is the quietest
centerfire suppressed setup i have.
Accuracy is great! sub 1moa groups at 100 yrds and soda can targets out to 300 yrds are easy when I do my part.

[m21black]

Have you considered using a tc contender frame and a ssk or bullberry barrel? First pick for me would be a whisper on a cz 527 action, followed by a 788 remington. i'll pass on the shoe box action savage makes even if it makes scense to be able to change barrels and i'll pass on the 700 remington action, i hear they don't extract well.

[LouBoyd]

i'll pass on the 700 remington action, i hear they don't extract well.

What does a Rem 700 not extracting well sound like? All of my Rem 700 (and 600's and XP-100s) extract just fine. Ejection is annoying as their spring loaded plungers throw brass as bad as some semi-autos.

[amafrank]

What I've seen on the Rem 700's is that the shorter whisper case sometimes falls from the bolt face because it doesn't maintain the pressure on the ejector that the longer case does. With the remington the case drags against the inside of the barrel/chamber and then the receiver with pressure from the ejector holding it against the side. If the pressure is released the case can fall from the bolt face.
I've worked a few of them where I extended the flat on the ejector to allow it to push further out and keep the pressure on the case head until it clears the ejection port.
All the remingtons don't have the problem though a good percentage do. They are still a very good rifle and worth considering especially with the ejector mod to extend it.

Frank

[Fudmottin]

The AR type rifle gives you the fastest followup and engagement of multiple targets. The bolt action gives you a wider range of powder and bullet selections. The AR can be made as quiet as a bolt gun by having a gas block that can be shut off. However, it still has limits on the bullets it can feed.

It comes down to intended use.

If you are going after game that is easily spooked and dangerous, remember, "I am a stone. I have only one bullet..."

[Pnutz]

The AR type rifle gives you the fastest followup and engagement of multiple targets. The bolt action gives you a wider range of powder and bullet selections. The AR can be made as quiet as a bolt gun by having a gas block that can be shut off. However, it still has limits on the bullets it can feed.

It comes down to intended use.

If you are going after game that is easily spooked and dangerous, remember, "I am a stone. I have only one bullet..."

Typically the quietiest and most accurate is the bolt gun. But as Fudmottin suggested a gas block that can be turned off would be really nice and quiet. I have found that round nose ammo does not feed at all in my AR.

I'm gonna run out and purchase and adjustable gas block now.

[Rikky Lee]

On more than one occasion I spent the extra money and have sako extractor installed then put a Badger style bolt handle on the 700.

Have no complaints after that.

[Fudmottin]

I've got a Douglas Premium 1:8 barrel in my AR 300-221 upper. You would have to be a damn good shot to find a bolt gun of the same weight that can beat it. I expect the single shot bench guns can do it.

[Rikky Lee]

I suppose it comes down to the old argument of volume shooting versus single shots. These days semi-autos are damn near as accurate as bolt actions not to mention as reliable. Think back 10 - 20 years when all this development started - we would likely have not have wanted to touch an AR-15 platform.

I know my first exposure to one was less than thrilling.

These days, I think it comes down to how much you want to shoot/reload as accuracy should be on par ... which is the polite way of saying "How much does Sir want to spend?".

[Fudmottin]

It is easy to just keep pulling the trigger. And I suspect that when you have just the one shot, you will be more careful with it.

Lots of ARs are just crap guns that can barely outshoot an AK. But these days, you can get nice triggers and good barrels put in them and mount nice optics. The one thing that will give the bolt gun the edge is the AR's gas port.

I've already mentioned the wider selection of bullet choices and powders for the bolt guns.

Certainly with any firearm, spending money may make it better. When it comes down to it, the barrel IS the rifle. Everything else is just to get the cartridge in and fired.