Hawk 250gr subsonic expansion

[Alleycat]

I had some custom bullets made by Hawk. The bullets are 250gr .025 jackets and double annealed. Bullets on the left are unmodified. I added a 1/16 hollow point to the bullets on the right. Weight was reduced by 1.8 grains. I added some pics of the bullet tip. I think I'm on the right track. My next order will be a slightly longer jacket and what I consider a compound hollow point. It all depends on the expansion to penetration ratio. Hawk does not hollow point but, they are very accommodating. What is interesting is their comment that they make .510 cal bullets that are designed for expansion at subsonic velocities all the time. So either you guys are holding out or the military has some cool toys.

[hugginsvilleH&A]

sweet! keep us updated on the progress, looks good...what did you shoot at? paper, gong, or phone book????

[pug]

For your hollow point try using a broader hole funneling into the 1/16" hole. The broader opening will gather more material and try to force it into the smaller opening which will generate a type of hydraulic action and perhaps split the jacket to allow for more expansion. Works for me down to almost subsonic velocities and with your thinner softer jackets they just may split at subsonic.

[Alleycat]

I made up some compound hollow points today. "Funnel shaped" They were shot into wet news print and a wet PAW catalog. The bullet penetrated one inch and began to open. The cavity was four inches long and about the size of a half dollar. It continued to penetrate 3 feet and in the last few inches came to rest on its side. The bullets in my first post were shot into a backstop that is the consistency of clay. I included a 125 Nosler for comparison. I have found that the bullets I pull from clay more closely resemble the bullets pulled from deer. Nothing's perfect. The 1/16 hollow points create a quarter size hole, but the cavity is about six inches long. I was not able to catch a small hollow point in the print so penetration was more than 3 1/2 feet. The compound hollow point shed the lead tip extremely fast. The next test will be on a deer. This weekend will be muzzleloader season. I plan on testing on deer that have been taken legally(Dead). It's the only way I'll know for sure. I don't want to risk a wounded animal.

[Alleycat]

I tested the bullets on a deer yesterday. They produced bullet size entry and slightly larger exit. Wound channel was the size of a nickel inside the rib cage. There was too much damage from the muzzleloader to see what happened to the vitals. I spoke to Hawk today for forty-five minutes about this issue. They have made .30 cal. bullets that expand for a police department. They told me that they would be happy to make a few bullets in different weights and designs and ship them to me for testing. Hawk will also test. If we can come up with a good design that expands well and penetrates, it will go into production, if there is enough interest. The bullets they made for the police would expand on coyote size game. I have never dealt with a company that is so willing to work with me. They're good people.

[cav_scout_tj]

Good info. The penetration vs expansion issue is a classic. What is the goal here? 18" penetration and 2x expansion?

Some info I saw somewhere:
http://www.corbins.com/subsonic.htm

http://www.corbins.com/saber.htm

I wonder if the ball trick would work, like Glaser uses in the power balls:
http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/powrball.htm

Corbins sells balls also.
http://www.corbins.com/bball.htm

[Alleycat]

I have a thread on here about corbin bullets, but it's a little over two grand to get started making your own. There is a guy that is working on making some, but I have been waiting for about nine months. He is having all kinds of trouble. I talked to him today and he had sent someone to Corbin to find out what they're doing wrong. The difference with Hawk is that I know they run through my AR and the extra weight will help in penetration. As far as expansion goes I have shot deer with nonexpanding hard cast 45 handgun bullets. They did very well. Deer ran after they were shot, but no farther than when shot in the heart with a more conventional rifle. It would require expansion of about 1.5x to duplicate. I like to get full penetration so 18 to 20 inches would be great. I'm basically tring to duplicate a hot loaded 45 colt. That round has put more than one deer down.

[cav_scout_tj]

I wonder if some sort of scalloped jacket, like this remington 158graing 357 bullet:
http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/highres/255421.jpg

or this 30-30 150gr rem.
http://www.midwayusa.com/midwayusa/staticpages/highres/732335.jpg

Some sort of programmed weakening of the jacket would help I think.

[JFettig]

Alleycat, Shooting into a dirt backtop will tear the bullets appart You should shoot these into water jugs or soaking wet news paper.

Jon

[Pitt300]

Alleycat,
Are you shooting the 250s supersonic or subsonic?

[Alleycat]

My goal is to help develop a bullet that will reliably expand at subsonic velocities. I would like it to be as heavy as possible to aid in penetration. As far as testing goes we all have our preferences, but I test every bullet I shoot. I like wet newsprint and wet clay. It gives me an idea of what the bullet does at different densities. For instance I've seen numerous 240 MK's drive strait though three feet of newsprint and never tumble. Every time I put one in clay it ends up on its side. Wet newsprint works great for high velocity stuff, but subsonic stuff seem to react in a different manner. I also like to look at the wound channel volume and the position of the bullet after it comes to rest. Water bottles do not allow for this. Of course the only perfect material is a deer. They don't sell them at Walmart. I may be working on this until Obama's civilian army comes knocking on my door, but I well get this done.

[HUNTER2]

Any News On Your New Hawk Bullets? Season Is Over Here, But It Is Never Too Early To Start Getting Ready For Next Year!

[Alleycat]

I have not received any thin jacketed bullets yet. I did shoot one deer with a Hawk and two deer with 240 matchkings. The Hawk went through both lungs. The deer did a 180 and ran 115 yards, did a butt wiggle and fell over dead. The blood trail was nonexistent for 60 yards and good from there on. I had mixed results with the 240s. Monday I called Corbin, I am more then likely going to order everything to make what I need. I have about four designs that will work, it's just a matter of which works best. Corbin dies could take months so we will see.

[HUNTER2]

I Have Contacted A Couple Of Bullet Makers And I Think I Have Some 220 Rbthp Coming Before Long. Thought I Would Try Them And Then Go To More Wt. If They Did Not Work Out.. Also Contacted Hawk And Their Reply Was - Working On 300 Whisper Bullet, Will Make A Large Run And Let You Know......wildcat Bullets Was Working On Something Like This, But Something Has Happened. Could Not Get In Touch For A Few Months...now I Hear From A Reliable Source That The Company Is Being Sold....maybe Then...keep You Posted

[HUNTER2]

Had Matrix Ballistics Ltd. (they Are Easy To Work With And Try To Get You What You Want)to Make Up Some 220 Gr. .240 Flat Point Rb..shoot Good Using 8.5 Of 296 Out Of A 16.5"...but Sadly To Say They Do No More Damage Than 180 Speer Btsp Backwards...good Hole Clean Through, Even With One Shoulder Hit...test Medium-large Goat...2 More Coming