25-06 ACKLEY

[300whisper_newbie]

progun Wrote :
Greetings!
Quarter bores have always been one of favorite rounds. Lately I've been considering the possibility of moving into the ackley area of ballistics, but am still looking at all of the differences between the stock 25 vs the improved. To date have not found many sources...then I find this forum!
Any help, comments, etc will be appreciated.
Thx in advance!
Kevin

[300whisper_newbie]

mjshell Wrote :
I AM BRAND NEW TO THIS FORUM AND ALSO AM A 25 CAL. FAN.

I HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED A CUSTOM BARREL FOR MY TC ENCORE IN 25-06 ACKLEY IMPROVED.

LOAD INFORMATION IS SCARCE. SIERRA HAS DATA IN THEIR NEW MANUAL. HOWEVER, THEIR REPORTED VELOCITIES ARE THE SAME AS THEIR REPORTED STANDARD 25-06 VELOCITIES WHILE USING MORE POWDER. THIS CONTRADICTS REASON AND OTHER RESEARCH I HAVE DONE.

I BELEIVE P.O ACKLEY RECOMMENDED STARTING AND MAXIMUM LOADS OF 5% OVER THE PARENT ROUND. SOME OF THE LOAD DATA I HAVE FOUND ON THE INTERNET FAR EXCEED THIS 5% STANDARD. SO BE VERY CAREFUL. VELOCITIES ARE SUPPOSE TO AVEARGE AND APPROXIMATE 200 FPS GAIN.

CURRENTLY I AM DEVELOPING DEER HUNTING LOADS FOR MY GUN AND HAVE NOT SETTLED ON A FINAL COMBINATION YET. MOST OF THE LOADS I HAVED TRIED SO FAR ARE CONSISTANTLY PRODUCING 100 YARD 1 INCH GROUPS.

[pc_weasle]

Is anyone currently shooting a 25/06Ackley? I have been considering building a 25/06 Ackley for a while. Would like some input from some of ya`ll. What are some chronographed velocities? Any feeding problems in a bolt gun. I have been shooting a Ruger 77R 24" bbl 4.5-14x40 Leu. with velocities very near 3400fps since 1989. Same gun same load. Loading Rem brass, CCI 200 primer, 100gr Sierra flat base and 54gr IMR4350. Under 5/8" when I have a good day. Used to shoot under 1/2". And yep, some sign of high pressure on a primer now and again. What are You shooting?

[Carpe Diem]

The typical Ackley Improved case gives a modest increase in velocity over the parent case - as long as both are loaded to the same pressures. All one has to do is look at modern tested loading data to verify this - the latest Nosler manual has a number of Ackley cartridges, and the average increase in velocity is on the order of 100 fps. This is simple ballistic fact, not clouded by the rantings and hype of guys trying to sell a product. There is just not enough increase in the case capacity to make a big difference in velocity.

OTOH, the .25-06 Ackley Improved case is much more attractive to me than the old .25-06, and while it may not give a huge power increase it has a major cool factor to it. PO made several rifles for me in the 1970s and while the load data in his books is highly suspect the historical value of his AI cartridges cannot be denied. When I get tired of my .257 Weatherbys I will likely have a .25-06 AI made.

[Kiwi]

I am also planning a rifle in 25/06 AI and this will be my third improved rifle project. The other two were a 223 and 22-250 both improved and velocity increases on those rifles were around 250ft per second not a huge gain but did make quite a difference to the trajectory of the bullet.
Having read both of Ackley's books his improvements worked well on some cartidges but not quite so well on others, One thing to keep in mind is that Ackley's words were written nearly 40 years ago and he did not have access to some of the powders that we have on the market today (especially the slower ones) Velocity increases were usually in the order of between 5 to 15 % of original maximum velocity of the parent case but some were lower and a few were higher.
Its funny that the 22-250 AI was not a cartridge he rated very highly but it has turned out to be a very popular cartridge with the varmint fraternity.
Murray :cool:

[Carpe Diem]

Take much of Ackley's load data with a grain of salt. He developed almost none of it himself, instead relying on data "from various sources", including his customers(!). Modern pressure-tested data -with modern powders - does not support a 200-300 fps gain for most of his AI cartridges - the capacity increase is not large enough to allow this to occur at equal pressures. You can get almost as fast with the parent cases if you want to load to higher pressures....

The old wives' tale about reducing case taper and reducing bolt thrust is just that, to a point. The thinking reloader knows this, but then how many thinking reloaders are there? :bangin:

[Kiwi]

There is a distinct lack of data around for most of Ackleys cartridges. As has already been stated some of the manufacturers data is basically identical to the standard case data so is not much help. Some of the data obtained off the net is very, very hot loads. With the standad cartridges you can use deformation of primers as an indication that you need to reduce slightly but because of reduced body taper you should not use this with Ackleys cartridges. For example reduced body taper should mean less bolt thrust if you see what I am getting at.
I guess a chronograph and much caution is the best advice.
I know that with my 22-250AI I can put 55 grain Nosler BT's down the range at 4200ft per second on the chrony and have no signs of excess pressure but the velocity itself tells me that the load is getting pretty hot.
Murray

[Carpe Diem]

About ten years ago, Rick Jameson in Shooting Times got his first Oehler M43 and tested some of his own maximum loads in the .22-250. He found that even though the loads looked fine in his rifles, he recorded pressures in excess of 80,000 psi! Tough cases and primers can be deceptive indicators of pressure......and a ruptured case at 80,000 psi is FAR more dangerous than one at 60,000 psi. ;)

[OKIE2]

maybe this will help you make up you mind
AND BE SURE TO CHECK THE 87 GRAIN AT 3920 FPS

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn=LWurXsWnCw&catid=326

And don't believe the crap about the barrel burner
mine lasted for 25 years before the throat went south

[Kiwi]

After having shot this cartridge for the last two years I have found with Ackley cases primers are not a good indicator of pressure. I have found that case head expansion is a better indicator of high pressure. Often primers on Ackley cartridges with loads that are 5000cup over SAAMI max pressure will not show any indications of high pressure but case head expansion will.
My fovorite long range varmint load sents a 100grain Nosler Ballistic Tip down range at just on 3550ft per second giving 5 shot groups around .53in
Velocity is up around 250ft per second on what this rifle fired with a standard chamber. The load was worked up slowly using data obtained from the parent case and the new Ackley chamber pretty much duplicating velocity from the
.257 weatherby. Loads were run through a ballistics/ load developement program to keep pressures down to the same SAAMI levels as the parent case.