Yet another way to make 300-221 fireball brass

[320pf]

In an earlier post someone came up with a way to make 300-221 fireball brass using a small tube cutter to cut 223 brass near the shoulder. The next step involved running the brass into the sizing die and then trim to length.

Well I tried this method and it was way too slow. But it led to another method to form brass that is pretty quick.

First, with the .223 collet installed, trim .223 brass past the shoulder to a length of 1.365". I use a Foster trimmer with an attachment for a drill.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/223trim.jpg

The brass at this point will look like a long version of a rimless 357 mag.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/300trimed.jpg

Run this brass into the sizer-deprimer die and you have a 300-221 fireball case.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/300brass.JPG

I can make about 100 cases in little over an hour.


320pf

[Quarterbore]

That is pretty darned slick! Thanks for sharing!

I changed your links to show the images as your images were not too large...

Also, I bet you end up with lots of brass chips when you are done!

[320pf]

That is pretty darned slick! Thanks for sharing!

I changed your links to show the images as your images were not too large...

Also, I bet you end up with lots of brass chips when you are done!

Quarterbore,

Thanks for ugrading the links. Yes I do get a lot of brass chips. Since I do not have the Foster trimmer mounted on the bench.... I hold it in one hand and the drill in the other, I trim/cut the brass over a 5 gal. plastic bucket. There are about 2 in. of cuttings in the bucket now.:grin: (I have made about 2000 cases and this method seems to be the fastest)

I should elaborate a bit on technique. When you are initially cutting the case, you can cut pretty quickly. Once you get to the shoulder and the colet is no longer supporting the case, you need to back off and slow down or else you will mangle the end of the formed case. I found that setting the drill to High speed cuts the best.

320pf

[JFettig]

After you trim your brass to 1.365 then form them, how long do they come out? I cut my initial batches long and didn't measure before and after so I don't know how long it turns out but I plan on cutting down a bunch more and I want to cut them so that I have to do minimal trimming afterwards.

Thanks,
Jon

[redneckdan]

thats how I was doing it before I started using the tubing cutter. I stopped using that method because I figured it was more wear and tear on the cutter head than nessisary. To each his own I guess.:uzi2:

[320pf]

After you trim your brass to 1.365 then form them, how long do they come out? I cut my initial batches long and didn't measure before and after so I don't know how long it turns out but I plan on cutting down a bunch more and I want to cut them so that I have to do minimal trimming afterwards.

Thanks,
Jon

Jon,

If you look at the accompanying photos you will see that the trimmed .223 case that looks like a rimless 357 is Oh so slightly shorter than the final form case. When you form the shoulder the case grows about 0.010. So here are the dimensions that I use.

I trim the cases to 1.357 ±0.002. I then sizes them and form the shoulder. The cases increase in length to 1.366 ±0.001. They do not require any re-trimming.

320pf

[320pf]

thats how I was doing it before I started using the tubing cutter. I stopped using that method because I figured it was more wear and tear on the cutter head than nessisary. To each his own I guess.:uzi2:

Rednecdan,

You are right. I am sure that I am putting more wear and tear on my trimmer. But it is a lot faster.

I shoot about 200 round a month in matches and I only recover about 60-70% of the brass. So I am always making brass. And fast is good:grin:

320pf

[mosigdude]

I did the same initially but was also concerened about the added wear and tear on the trimmer.

I now do, essentiually, the same thing except with a drill press. I purchased a cheap drill press vice and closed it snug, I then drilled a hole, slightly smaller than the base of the .223 brass, centered between the two jaws, and only about 1/2 way into the jaws. I then purchased a cheap 1/2" end mill (which is desigend very similar to the cutter on the trimmer) for about $10 and set the stop on the drill press so that my .223 brass is trimmed slighty longer or at the length that I want my finsihed 300 Whisper brass (it will lengthen slightly when formed). I centered the hole in the drill press vice under the mill and I then trim as many as I need using the vice as a quick clamp. I can do several hundred in an hour. I then form and size in the conventional manner and do a final quick trim with the case trimmer just to square everything up.

[daveinsvaz]

Living near a large military base, I can go to the traing areas. Generally can find unfired 223 blanks.
I take an unfired blank, run it into a Forester trim die. Cut off the exposed part about 1/8 hign. Remove, dump blank powder (wife puts it in her garden...phosperous and nitrogen. Use a modified Lee case trimer to trim length. Run into the de-prime die. Presto, a primed 300 Whisper case.
I know, some one will say the cases are defective (it's got a canleture...so does m118LR!), or too thick. Have a neck trimmer, but haven't had to use it yet.

Has worked well, no splits, no signs of pressure. Use 14 grains of H110 and 147 grain FMJ military bullets.

[fireball168]

I've used a Wilson case trimmer collet/sleeve.

Put a dab of Dykem on the case, scratch the Dykem with your caliber at the length you want to trim it.

Chuck up the Wilson trimmer collet/sleeve in 3-jaw chuck, put an end mill in your tailstock - advance the tailstock, it'll trim one in about 5 seconds.

Finish the trim in your case trimmer of choice after full length sizing/forming.

Saves some wear and tear, and sure seems much quicker to me.

[people]

daveinsvaz How many reloads do you get from blank cassings? Have you ever tried any 220gr?

[Garrett]

Be careful using this method. I just chucked up my hand drill on my RCBS Trim Pro and started making brass chips. About 50 pieces in, the thing bound up and stopped.

I looked everything over, and I had some pretty big gouges in the shaft of the trimmer, and it was really hard to turn.

I was able to clean up the gouges with some fine sandpaper and everything is fine now, but it has me wondering. RCBS sells a motor for this specific trimmer, and they also sell a hand drill adapter. However, I don't think removing 3/8" from the case was what they had in mind.

I think I might go back to cutting the cases and just trimming the last little bit.

[kdiver58]

I would recommend that any one doing this with the trimmer add a little extra synthetic lube to the bushing. It's not just the speed it's the extra time per hour that the cutter is cutting. Normally you would only be trimming for a few seconds every minute.

I'm lucky I have a lathe with a collet and a collet stop :)

On the brass question ... I'm up to 3 reloads on one set of Remington UMC .223 brass I cut down.

Happy 4th all :uzi2:

[daveinsvaz]

To 'PEOPLE':
Haven't reloaded the modified blanks but twice and no problems, so far. Made up about 300 cases and am happy with the result.

[people]

daveinsvaz Thank you I have about a little less than 1000 of them. I would rather use them for cassings than using regular 223 cassings.

[320pf]

In an earlier post someone came up with a way to make 300-221 fireball brass using a small tube cutter to cut 223 brass near the shoulder. The next step involved running the brass into the sizing die and then trim to length.

Well I tried this method and it was way too slow. But it led to another method to form brass that is pretty quick.

First, with the .223 collet installed, trim .223 brass past the shoulder to a length of 1.365". I use a Foster trimmer with an attachment for a drill.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/223trim.jpg

The brass at this point will look like a long version of a rimless 357 mag.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/300trimed.jpg

Run this brass into the sizer-deprimer die and you have a 300-221 fireball case.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/300brass.JPG

I can make about 100 cases in little over an hour.


320pf



Since this post, I have updated the method. I now use a Forster power trimmer.

Here is the starting 5.56/223 brass mounted in the Forster power trimmer.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/221-300Brass-1.jpg

Here is the "trimmed" intermediate-step brass.
http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/221-300Brass-2.jpg

Run this brass into the sizer-deprimer die and you have a 300-221 fireball case.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/535/300brass.JPG

I made these cases over a Saturday afternoon.

http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/photopost/data/500/boqubrass-1.jpg

I hope that this helps those who are looking for ways to make 300-221 Fireball brass


320pf

[Colohunter]

So that just attaches to a drill press? Do you have a problem with the cutting blades bouncing off of the case mouth? I tried doing that with a lee cutter, though I don't have the base, so I was holding the case with my fingers. It takes me way to long to make the brass using the Redding trim die, I would love a way to make it faster.

[320pf]

So that just attaches to a drill press? Do you have a problem with the cutting blades bouncing off of the case mouth? I tried doing that with a lee cutter, though I don't have the base, so I was holding the case with my fingers. It takes me way to long to make the brass using the Redding trim die, I would love a way to make it faster.

If I do not use the 22 pilot to start the cut it does chatter sometimes. If you want to make a S--t load of brass in short order and do not have access to a Dillion power trimmer or Dillion 650/Super 1050, this is a low budget way to go. I got the Forster power trimmer from MidWayUSA

320pf

[Colohunter]

Okay, that makes sense to use the pilot, but you don't have to switch pilots once the hole opens up past the size of the 22 pilot? I may have to check that out.

[JFettig]

Colohunter, you will not be able to hold that case in your fingers tight enough to trim the brass. You need something MUCH more rigid.

Jon

[Colohunter]

Yeah, that's what I had figured out, I had gotten used to doing it that way with the Lee trimmers.

[youssefa]

I will be getting my 300 in a few weeks, I would like to get a hundred or so round to start with. I have basic reloading equip. Presses, hand trimmer and pocket reamer, etc, but drill/press, cutters etc. Can't really afford that stuff after forking out for the rifle. Can anybody help me out?


Youssef

352 258 5175

[Fastshooter03]

Doesn't anyone use a vertical bandsaw?
I tried it last night as work. I thought it might crush or tear the cases but it went zipping through. Came out a little ragged but the final trim will take it out. I'm going to make an adjustable sliding holder to fit the saw table and support the case while cuttin to the right length.
I thought about it for awhile and that's the fastest way I can think of. You'll have a lot of chips using a regular timmer or EM. My original thought was to buy a cheap lee press, make a trim die, and put it in a vertical vise on one of the milling machines but sawing then trimming will be quicker with no press or trim die needed. You would however be cutting to the final OAL with those methods so I may still try the press in vise with trim die if this doesn't prove fast enough for me.
I'm going to trim the sawed pcs using a regular case trimmer or possibly making a die to use the Dillon electric trimmer on the 650 if there's enough length available. Only about .010-.020" will be left after sawing.

Nick

[320pf]

Doesn't anyone use a vertical bandsaw?
I tried it last night as work. I thought it might crush or tear the cases but it went zipping through. Came out a little ragged but the final trim will take it out. I'm going to make an adjustable sliding holder to fit the saw table and support the case while cuttin to the right length.
I thought about it for awhile and that's the fastest way I can think of. You'll have a lot of chips using a regular timmer or EM. My original thought was to buy a cheap lee press, make a trim die, and put it in a vertical vise on one of the milling machines but sawing then trimming will be quicker with no press or trim die needed. You would however be cutting to the final OAL with those methods so I may still try the press in vise with trim die if this doesn't prove fast enough for me.
I'm going to trim the sawed pcs using a regular case trimmer or possibly making a die to use the Dillon electric trimmer on the 650 if there's enough length available. Only about .010-.020" will be left after sawing.

Nick

Nick,

I have tried this method. I made a little jig that would hold eight cartridges at a time. It is way too slow. It requires handles each case at least three times. I shoot about 200 to 400 rounds a month with about a 15-20 percent case loss. So I want to make brass fast! I cut/trimmed 1000 rounds on Sunday and formed 800 of the 1000 into ready to load brass in about 3 hours. The only set-up that would be faster is a Dillion 1050 set up with a power trimmer and sizing dies.

Bottom line make your brass by what ever means works for you given your time constraints.

Good Luck and have fun and welcome the the 300-221 Fireball (a.k.a. 300 Whisper)

320pf

[Fastshooter03]

The pc that I made last night just cradles one round at a time. I found a problem in that you can't count on the blade being sharp in a work environment. I was hoping to get Paid for processing my brass but it looks like it won't be reliable enough due to the morons I work with. Other than that it did work with some denting and ripping even with a dull blade.
320pf-thanks for the welcome. How much swing does that forster power trimmer have on the handle? I assume it must open and close similar to their press. Do you get any kind of OAL runout on one side without a 308 pilot?
After last night running the cases on the dillon 650 and their power trimmer sounds really good but I'd be worried about the amount of chips produced. I do run a vacuum but I guess I'd have to just do it and see
I am also thinking of making a benchrest type seater die out of a forster 7.62x39 model by just making a new case holder. I was hoping the OAL is close enough and the seater stem is the correst size. I've never seen the SSK seater dies but I assume they are the standard type like the redding. I'm getting sick of adjusting the seater die for each different bullet. I'd rather have a bunch of bullet specific seater dies. Has anyone tried to make their own seater dies in this manner?

Nick

[Fastshooter03]

last night I tried something I though wouldn't work but turned out to be awesome.
Using a v-block with one clamp on a broken 3/8 EM as a stop and the top clamp with a delrin bumper holding the case I was able to pound through them with a 1/2" carb EM at 2400 rpms. I had a small strip of tape at the top to take care of the case taper. I thought the case would get crushed but it took very little pressure on the bottom half to keep it from spinning. The cases came out with a very small burr and were very consistent in OAL. Just had to blow off chips on the stop every 4 or 5 pcs.
I know some people don't have access to a milling machine capable of this but a drill press should work almost as well if you can clamp the v-block down tight and a chuck big enough.

Nick

[JonPalmer]

The only set-up that would be faster is a Dillion 1050 set up with a power trimmer and sizing dies.

320pf

Has anybody tried the Dillon method?

I've been using a mini chop-saw to cut the cases down and then I run them through a size die and then do the final trim on a Giraud Power Trimmer, it takes my guys about 1 hour to form 250 cases.

thanks,
Jon

[320pf]

Has anybody tried the Dillon method?

I've been using a mini chop-saw to cut the cases down and then I run them through a size die and then do the final trim on a Giraud Power Trimmer, it takes my guys about 1 hour to form 250 cases.

thanks,
Jon

Here is a youtube video of the set up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFkmpHdGm0U

320pf