Anyone Turn your own bullets?

[JFettig]

I got this crazy idea to turn some of my own solid copper projectiles for special applications, like really light 9mm bullets for rabbit hunting with the 9mm AR.
What I really want to do is make a good .30 cal bullet for a .300 whisper cartridge that actually expands well. I did a lot of looking around, theres a guy in europe who turns his own bullets, he has ribs on the copper ones that stick out. When I look at Barnes bullets the ribs are cut into the bullets.

Any suggestions on diameters, both of the grooves and of the bullet, whether or not to even use grooves?

Barnes pistol bullets do not have the grooves, are they not needed for rifle?

I have a small CNC lathe that I could easily turn these bullets on, so making them isn't really an issue. They should probably be swaged after I turn them though to make the process a little quicker, this way I'd only have to hold .001 or .002 then swage to size, it'll be a little tedious keeping really high tollerances on the lathe without swaging.

Thanks,
Jon

[A62Rambler]

What a coincidence! I just last night visited the Corbin site and noted that they sold dies for making solid copper bullets. There's your source for swaging them after you turn them. Let me know how it turns out. I'm looking at swaging traditional copper jacketed lead bullets for use with subsonic 300-221 rounds. I've got this crazy idea that I can make a bullet that performs at 800-1100 fps. The start up cost for making them is a bit more that what I had anticipated and that will delay my grand plan. :eek:

[JFettig]

I don't think I can afford the whole swaging setup. I'm still considering turning a small amount for testing. I can turn them and watch the tollerances for each one carefully enough to do a few to try out my idea. It'll be some time until I get around to doing that.


Jon

[amafrank]

I've turned some projos for larger diameter stuff from .50 cal to 25mm for an anti tank gun. I did quite a few for a 20mm anti tank rifle. All in all they work quite well but using pure copper is not a good idea. It has some problems that make it difficult to use. It is difficult to machine because its "gooey" and tends to load up the bit, even in the hardest alloys its a problem getting good surface finish on the parts. It has some problems in use as well with fouling. There are better materials for turning projos and the best is probably bronze. It is much easier to machine, does not foul as badly,has a lower coeffecient of friction, is comparable in density and is a little less expensive than copper(not a lot). I used 934 Bronze in the cannons with very good results. There is also brass which is cheaper than bronze or copper, the easiest of the whole lot to machine (it is the standard by which materials are judged for machineability), it doesn't foul as bad as copper but worse than bronze, lower coefficient of friction than copper but higher than bronze and the density is right there with copper and bronze. I used a lot of 360 brass for projo's of all types. Last one is LedLoy which I have not used but some .50 cal shooters are. It is 12L14 steel which is leaded to make it more machineable. Its softer than your bore but hard still. I can't make myself believe it won't drag the rifling out the bore with it but some swear by it.
There is a good article on Dan Lilja's website concerning the use of these and other materials for bullets in .50's. Lilja is a barrel maker in montana. I don't have a link to his site but google should. You are looking for articles on his site.

Hope that helps
Frank

[JFettig]

Thanks amafrank! I have milled copper quite a bit and thought it wouldn't really be that bad for turning. I'll take your word for it and get some bronze when it comes time. What I am finding is 932 bronze from onlinemetals, I looked at the specs at matweb and its just a hair harder, probably should work well. I wonder how well it will hold together for expanding bullets?

Jon

[pug]

Well I hope your project will come together for you but keep in mind solids generally just punch a hole. If you want something cheap as a reference for expansion you can purchase some Winchester Power Points and use a counter boring center bit in the tailstock to drill a counterbored hollow point. Drill until the hollow just touches the inside of the mouth of the jacket. This will give you a broad nose opening that will funnel a lot of material down into the smaller drill bore and will create a hydraulic action that will split the scored power point jacket very quickly. Very very effective at medium to high velocity. For subsonic you will have to tinker with it.

[JFettig]

I plan to make deep hollow points and aluminum or delrin tips to assure feeding.


Jon

[amafrank]

Jon,
I see looking at your post that I misprinted the bronze alloy in my post. It should be 932. I've been typing in a dark room and can't seem to keep my numbers straight. . .

I bought some short pieces of 932 from McMaster Carr in chicago. The prices were not as good as the local metal supplier if I bought larger quantities but for test batches they aren't bad. 260 brass is also good. Its known as Cartridge brass because thats the original and primary use for it. Its machineability is not as good as 360 but most of us would never notice.

At first glance I would say expansion on this type of bullet is a dream but the reality I found with the .50 cal and 20mm projos showed me different. At higher velocity even the solids expand well in sand but I don't know about subsonics expanding at all even with huge hollowpoints. I don't know about the grooving either. I would think that deep enough grooves to make a difference might promote splitting due to the spin rate in some of these bullets. I have seen some solids explode but they were sintered bronze known most often as oil-lite which is used for bearing material. Some guys like it to make projos for the small cannons because this stuff will leave a smoke trace out a few hundred yards due to the oil impregnated in it.

Maybe this won't apply to the much smaller diameter bullets you are looking at.....

Frank

[amafrank]

One more thing here, I found the link to the bullet material article written by Dan Lilja. You might find it interesting reading if nothing else.

Enjoy.

Frank

http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/50calibre/material_50cal_bullets.htm

[GREYGHOSTt]

i guess you mean something like these?

[JFettig]

i guess you mean something like these?

Please share info!


Jon

[GREYGHOSTt]

they are 240 grn spire point lead tip j4's fired from a 8" 300 whisper 9.8 grns 2400
should be about 950 fps the other details oare in the pic just click onit to enlarge..

[A62Rambler]

Greyghost,

Into what were those fired? I didn't think that just using a J4 would be enough to let them expand that much at that low of a velocity. It's encouraging that I might yet find a deer bullet for subsonic use. :smile:

[GREYGHOSTt]

wet paper but the jackets were annealed before core seating.

[daveosok]

Try C38500/C385 (Architectural Bronze) its free machining and rather cheap and is close to what the other monolithic style custom bullet makers are using.

[rufracer]

another good way to achive good expansion at low velocity is to fill the hollow point with petrolium jelly. :wink: REALLY.