Cast

[redneckdan]

My latest experiment with cast in an AR-15. These drop at 191gr from linotype, 255gr with pure lead. I'm gonna try loading them today and see how they shoot. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/redneckdan/IMGP2717.jpg

[THE DOCTOR]

I would be interested in your results Dan

what rifle are you shooting this from twist rate length of barrel gas port position and diameter if it's an AR

any other load data would be greatly appreciated

have you tried shooting them through a suppressor? if so how was the leading if any?

thanks

DOC

[Artful]

So who's bullet mold is that?

[THE DOCTOR]

i have a 180gr mold i am anxious to try in my ar and just want to make sure it isn't going to gum up the works before i go forward

[redneckdan]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to all ya'll. The loads shot just fine, I have at the moment about 1k cast rounds through my del-ton upper 16" flat-top upper, 1:8 twist, carbine gas port at .110" diameter. Load was 14.0gr of H4227, bastardized Lake City brass and CCI small rifle primers. There is much more carbon build up in the bolt carrier, but it is much, much softer than the carbon build up you get from standard ammo, I figure its from the bullet lube. There is no lead build up in the gas tube or bolt carrier. The mold is a Lee .308 210gr HBC, no longer in production. Balistic co-efficent is in the neighborhood of .5, I haven't had a chance to do serious testing yet. Accuracy is excellent, again no significant testing but with the BSA 'holosight' I have been able to wack rabbits in my back yard out to 77 yds (lazed with range finder).

I'd say give lead bullets a shot. The biggest factors for leading are undersized bullets and lube failure. Slug your bore and size to .001" over groove diameter. Lee alox works for lube, my home recipe is 80% beeswax, 10% ivory soap and 10% peanut oil.

God forbid, if you do get leading, soak the parts in a mixture of (by volume) 50% store bought white vinegar and %50 hydrogen peroxide (3% stength, the kind you buy over the counter). This disolved the lead and it scrubs out easily.

[THE DOCTOR]

I have been using a lee mold that casts about out at about 200gr with lube and gas check i have the exact same set up you have del ton barrel and gas port location and with 4227 it goes supersonic before I would get consistent reliability. Have you trimmed any coils off your buffer spring?

I have been using winchester 748 with the same cast 200 grainers and getting better reliability but occasionally short stroking ejecting but not picking up the next round.

With 147 and 150's and heavier jacketed bullets i get excellent reliability but they are not nearly as cheap as cast and for as much as i like to shoot i will experiment some more. Obviously it is easier to make the cast bullets conform to the rifling than the copper bullets.

To complicate matters more i just installed one of the 3 position gas blocks that the gentleman from paladin machine has listed here in the for sale section. His work is top notch and very reasonable. With this new system i may need to open the gas port a bit. But before i do I going to try a lot more powders before I ream any holes.

I will keep you posted

thanks for the info.

[redneckdan]

I started getting reliable cycling at 13.4 grains of H4227. I use 14 grains to make sure they cycle every time. This load is crankin out at about 1600 fps.

Cast loads as a general rule will run at a lower pressure and slightly higher velocity than jacketed, due to less bore friction and easier engraving to the rifling.

I'm starting to experiment with cast and sub sonic. I loaded up 20 rounds of the afore mentioned cast bullets with a charge of H335 to see if that will cycle the action, my theory being a slower powder will have more pressure at the gas port than a faster powder.

[THE DOCTOR]

I am currently using winchester 748 with cast 200gr and am starting to get reliability with 13.2 gr but would like to go a bit higher to be sure of function but i need to get the chrono out tomorrow to see how much room i have before i go trans or supersonic. I like you came to the same conclusion that slower powder means more pressure at the gas port and so far it seems to be working.

I really like the cartridge good cheap fun

[redneckdan]

9.0 grains of H335 was enough to cycle the action properly. I don't know velocity, the chrono got left on the reloading bench by mistake.

[redneckdan]

I loaded some cast with H335, I had problems with lots of unburned powder, even tried magnum small rifle primers and that didn't help. I'm going to try going to a faster powder, maybe AA 2015 or reloader 7.

Also, did some experimenting with gas checks. Shooting cast without gas checks does not result in any leading, but accuracy went all to hell. Shooting will checks the rifle shoots just as well as with jacketed bullets.

[redneckdan]

Finally got out to do some testing with the Ar-15. The front tube is not a free floater so I have to shoot sans sling, bipod or rest other wise the groups go crazy. This was prone at 50yds, 5 shots, numbered for your convience. Sorry for the extraneous boolit holes, Jen missed the part where I asked 'Please don't shoot the lower row of bulls'.:uzi2: The .30cal hole at 12 o'clock was from scope sighting on the center sighting bull, not the 5rd group.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/redneckdan/IMGP3218.jpg

This was a lee HBC sized .308 weighing 195 grains with check and lube. Load was 15grs of H 110 in LC brass trimmed 1.350 inches, est. velocity of 1500-ish F.P.S. I estimate the group at 1.5" center distance between #5 and #1.

[kogashuko]

I was thinking about doing this after people keep offering me free lead. From what it looks like I need a mold, furnace, and bullet sizer press thing and I am set. Less that what I would pay for 1000 210grn bullets.

[redneckdan]

Lee dipper-$10
Old stainless steel or cast iron pot- free if you got one layin around
Hot plate-$5 at walmart
200gr lee rd nose mould- $15
Gas checks- $20 / thou
Lee sizer - $12

[kogashuko]

I have found plenty of .309 molds but it looks like the shaped ones that are heavier bullets are .310 or .311. I have found a little about this on a google search, will these fire or should I get a lee sizing die and make them all .308 or .309. Also, someone was saying that 32apc bullets could be used... I can probably get those cheaper than casting or get a 6 cavity mold easily for them. Also 7.62X39 molds are around with a more pointed shape. Where should I be looking with these? Do I even need to use the damn lee resizer die?

[redneckdan]

ideally, you want the bullet to be sized .001" over bore diameter to get a proper seal. At first I was sizing to .311 since thats the closest I had on hand but it was too large. Bullets should be sized. For more info, head on over to castboolits.gunloads.com everyting you ever cared to know about casting. The lee moulds for the 7.62x39 work well in the whisper.

[21contender]

I have 3 .30 cal moulds, a Lyman 195 gr., a Lee 200 gr., and a Lee 180 gr.. All are gas check style and I size them .309. I use a Lyman 30 short Neck Expand (M) die to expand the neck and that does a nice job of starting the bullet into the case. Since I shoot a contender, I'm not worried about cycling of the action. I like to shoot cast bullets subsonic and have tried Trail Boss with mixed results so far. 5.7 gr. (all most full case) only gets 850 fps with the 195 Lyman bullet from my SSK 21" barrel. Extreem spread is around 40 fps. I use 9.6 of Acurate Arms #9 powder with 220 Sierra Match Kings for 1060 fps with ES of around 25 fps.

21c.

[kogashuko]

Found a thing on the lee website today about custom molds. I wonder if we could get 25 people together to do six cavity 250gn molds.

[GaryM]

Found a thing on the lee website today about custom molds. I wonder if we could get 25 people together to do six cavity 250gn molds.
Now that is a good idea, any idea on the price?

[redneckdan]

castboolits has regular group buys, lee is kinda back logged right now. cost is usually $60-ish for 6 cavity moulds. The problem is overal length limits. They mass produce mould blocks and don't make custom ones for longer bullets.

[kogashuko]

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1200676393.96=/html/catalog/custom.html#CUSTOMMOLDS

"Molds
We make custom bullet molds to your specifications. Maximum bullet mold dimensions for standard mold blocks; (all dimensions in inches) single cavity, .580 diameter, 1.250 length; double cavity, .685* diameter, .900 length; six cavity, .520 diameter, 1.000 length; *for single cavity mold in double cavity blocks, like our slug mold. For two cavities in the double cavity blocks, max. diameter is .600 inch. Click here for a mold design assistance sheet.

We need:

Payment ($100 set-up and tooling fee for flat based bullets plus the cost of the mold ) ($150 for hollow based bullets, plus the cost of the mold)
Single or double cavity molds would be $24.98 each, six cavity would be $50.00 each. Hollow base bullets can only be made in single cavity, and are $25.98 each.
Add $4.00 to your order for order processing fee
The above set-up and tooling fee will be waived on orders of 25 pieces or more. For orders over 100 pieces regular dealer/distributor prices apply to mold prices, in addition to elimination of the set-up and tooling fee."

[gary0529]

redneckdan,

Your posting concerning how dirty the H-335 burned mirrored my experience.
Tried it behind 200 grain cast spire point/GC and the accuracy was OK-getting under 1" @ 100 yards with bolt action Rem XR , 16" Lilja SS 1/8 barrel and Gemtech can but dirty. After 15 or so rounds I had unburned powder building up and was necessary to take an AR type brush to clean out crud from action.

On a positive note, noted very little to no leading in suppressor or in barrel.

Nice to shoot cheaper home cast than Sierra 240's .

Have yet to try Lil Gun or VV-110 but may have to swing by local shop and see if either in stock and not outrageously expensive.

Gary

[HUNTER2]

Has anyone retrieved any of the spent bullets to see if the lube is actually doing anything. Shoot .308 45 430 510 cast subsonic. All of the bullets I recover from an oak backstop has all of the lube still intact. Different manuf. but all the same....Not going fast enough for lube to work? Have started using plain cast and they work just as well....